serious seed question from a nearly 4 year old

I have no knowledge or experience with saved squash seeds, but I'm wondering about something. Excuse me if this sounds daft, I genuinely don't know, but here's what I'm wondering.

This drying out process probably doesn't happen in nature. I think in nature, a fruit will fall, slowly rot, maybe be disturbed by some animal that wants to eat the juicy flesh of said fruit. All the while, over many weeks, the seeds will be slowly maturing. So I'm wondering, this drying out process, is it necessary to dry the seeds, or is it more about giving the seeds time to mature, and maybe keeping them drying doesn't exactly help in the process, except to ensure that fungi doesn't come along and rot them.

 

good point but then wouldnt that also apply to peas, broad beans, runners, sweetcorn ect after all whether we buy or save our selves these are all dried

 

oh shiney that is just fab thank you i will be showing melody this later, your seed sprouter lookes like a steam cooker !
so basically place seed on wet tissues and pop into covered container to keep moist what time year would i do this shiney ?

 

Ah, I think Clueless and Shiney have said what I was going to say now! That the drying is for storage purposes...i.e. once dried, they can be saved till ideal growing conditions can be provided. Day length/temp etc. Some dried seeds can remain viable for many, many years. Different seeds have different germination requirements, many will germinate easily when fresh with no particular requirement, some need eating and passing through an animals gut, some need a period of cold etc. Once dried, some need chitting or soaking first.
It might be better to sow them in March/April in some heat, 'cos they can't be planted out till after the frosts. (Along with some bought seeds incase!)
Just found this:
http://allaboutallotments.com/Butternutsquash.html

 

Sorry! Hadn't seen Shiney's last post!

 

thank you so much shiney that info is great i have space as i will grow up the plot so thats fab news, tell me how many fruits do you allow to mature as i have read conflicting info regarding this

 

thank you Julie

love the squash houses i want one !

 

In our climate, seeds are produced at the least advantageous season to start growing i.e. the Autumn, so some kind of innate dormancy or capacity for biding its time has to be in each seed. Temperature rises in the Spring are usually the trigger to make seeds that have lain there since last year begin to germinate. If they all germinated immediately they released from the mother plant most would perish in the frosts of winter.

We can fast forward this by the simple expedient of placing them on a centrally-heated windowsill. Chitting Kaz, it's still a bit early to raise tender squashes succesfully - could you sow a few now to satisfy the curiosity, then succession sow every fortnight so if the first plants don't flourish you've got some backups to retain Melody's interest?

Clueless's point about the seed continuing to mature even while dry - does this happen? Can ripening occur even though the seed or seedhead has been taken off the plant? When collecting seeds I wait for the seed to darken rather than pick green or whitish ones. Does this actually matter?

Shiney, love the phots of just germinated seedlings, never fails to give a lift to the heart!

 

I might be guessing now, or I might have seen it on a documentary and then forgotten (that sort of thin happens to me a lot ), but I thought this was all super clever evolution in practice.

There is a problem to overcome. The best time for the seed to germinate is spring time, but the parent plant can't survive the winter, or if it can, it certainly kind get the energy it needs to produce seed through winter.

How to overcome this problem? Surround the seeds in some fleshy fruit or a hard nut casing. That way the seed is in its own little survival pod. Parent plant sheds it in autumn, meaning its had all summer to gather the energy needed to produce the fruit. Whole fruit falls to the ground, and slowly rots on the floor, leaving just the seed by spring. Lots of rain throughout winter and spring helps the seed to bed in to the surface of the soil, all set to grow in spring

 

My learning of it (such as it is) takes a slightly different angle to add to Clueless' post:
When plants were evolving there was much forest-litter on the floor - aside from the ambient humidity the seeds had only the moisture within its pod or parent-fruit-sac. So if the humidity outside was lower, the seed would start to dry out a bit. It would appear as though there might have been dry(er) seasons when the seeds fell (harvest time) and wetter seasons for sowing time so the seed might well have undergone some amount of drying following by some amount of wetting, along with new season warmth to germinate the seed.
Not only that but animals would eat some of the fallen fruit and the seeds encased in droppings. However, many 1000's of seeds would fall before a single one would germinate and successfully live through to harvest time.
The way we dry it gives extra shelf life. That said, I throw my seeds away after four years because the germ rate drops off too much. But now I shall put my extra seeds in with GC's seed swap bag after the first year.

 

What about the issue of whether any seed can be picked immature but then ripen up off the plant? Is it possible to do this to a seed and it still be capable of germination? If the fruit is ripe does it also follow that the seed is ripe, and conversely, can you get a ripe seed out of an unripe fruit?

For example, if you picked a poppy head when the pod was still green and the seeds still green or white, would the seeds be capable of germination at that point? If you kept them under suitable conditions could you get those green-picked seeds to mature OFF the plant?

 

I remember this from reading one of my books

As long as the seed is fully developed when you pick it, then it can still be viable even if it is still soft and green/white.

Here's the bit that I find quite magic. The seed consists of a protective outer casing, several layers of insulation and nutrient store, and then the real magic, a completely formed but minute baby plant curled up inside, exactly the same way as an embryonic baby in a womb is complete but tiny. As long as the unripe seed doesn't get damaged, then the embryonic plant inside is safe. The casing will still ripen because it contains all the chemicals it needs at this point for the necessary reactions to occur.

Now it gets really, really magic. The several layers of the seed casing are 'programmed' to respond to different stimuli. Some layers need cold to break down chemical bonds and weaken the casing (that's why many seeds need at least some cold stratification). Some need warmth and moisture to fuel the reaction. The sequence is such that it follows the seasons, with the innermost layer splitting in spring time. But it gets even more clever. As each layer breaks down, it releases chemicals that act as a trigger to the next layer, thus coordinating the reactions. As the final layer breaks down, it releases a hormone which stimulates the embryonic plant to start growing.

Some say its science. I say its magic. Science/magic, same thing. Science is simply the explanation of magic