Should I go for this plot?

I'm on the internet and I don't frown upon it. In fact in my first Bindweed War, I did exactly that to my own garden, even as far as accepting that some of my plants would be collateral damage. It worked. The bindweed went and never got back in while I was there, and correspondence with my former neighbour suggested it was still gone a year after I moved away from there.

I think much of the frowning going on is political rather than any other reason. The main herbicide for such jobs is glyphosate, which is owned by one of the big dastardly companies (who quite rightly are held with great suspicion by many), and by buying their product you are effectively funding them. The alternative would be to by plastic sheeting, which would be the same as funding the oil and petrochemical companies which do at least as much damage, if not more.

So the question is, how much do you care about the politics vs getting the job done? That's a personal choice. My personal choice would be to use a glyphosate based spray to kill off everything that's growing, under the assurances that glyphosate is broken down into harmless starches by soil microbes.

Again its each to their own. I've never been keen on the black plastic sheeting idea myself, for a number of reasons. Firstly, I dislike the idea of introducing yet more plastic into the world. Its horrible stuff (ok, I know we need it these days). It takes a huge amount of energy and resources to produce, and it never goes away. But also I'm sceptical about it because I can't see how the natural flow of water and nutrients and gases can happen in and on the soil when its covered up. I can't help but wonder if it turns the soil all nasty due to an almost complete absence of air circulation, and I also wonder what it does to all the 'friendly' soil organisms trapped under it, with no fresh rain or air coming in or CO2 coming out.

 

I have some thoughts:

When choosing I would take a spade and dig an exploratory hole. I expect that some will have been lovingly tended for generations (unless it is a new site), and the one which has had the most muck, over the years, will have the best soil - and should now be growing the best crop of weeds I would take the one with the best soil, regardless of weeds.

If it is even-Stevens then choose one without Marestail [more correctly called Horsetail], and if there is none on the site then select based on Ground Elder, Bindweed and Couch grass (in that order I think, as they would be my order-of-eradication-difficulty)

Cut the tops off (brush cutter, rather than domestic strimmer - hire one if you don't have one man-enough, or use some sort of machete-type slashing hand tool), wait for regrowth and spray with weedkiller (if you are OK with that) or cover as soon as everything has been cut down.

If soil is in good heart (I can't believe that it won't be, unless its a new site) then plan on a no-dig approach, and just plant straight through the covering material. Perhaps concentrate on soil-cleaning crops in the first year ... Spuds are good (time marching on for planting them ...) and Pumpkins / Squash - they cover a huge area, so planting through the covering you'll only need a few plants to cover the whole area in Year One

Lots of Rant sites on the internet. I ignore ANY such site UNLESS they have links to proper scientific peer-reviewed & published science. You or I can start a website saying "X is rubbish" in 5 minutes flat ...

Glyphosate has been around since the '70s. Plenty of time for adverse reactions to be found. (According to Wikipedia 83,000 tonnes of Glyphosate was applied to crops in USA alone [in 2007]). But you do need to make your own mind up on that, of course. My personal view is that I would have no problem with a one-time get-your-started application of Glyphosate (in practice that will be Apply Once, wait 2 weeks, Apply Again to anything still green, wait two weeks, then cultivate.).

Gyphosate itself is only very mildly toxic, its the other things ("adjuvants") that are added that have make the concoction toxic - surfactants that make the spray stick to the leaves, other chemicals that assist the Glyphosate to transport into the cells in the leaf and translocate to the roots. The latest versions of Monsanto's Roundup use adjuvants that are non toxic (latest formulations of Roundup no longer carry a Hazard symbol, as far as I know that is not the case for any of the generic Glyphosate brands - although not sure if it, yet, applies to Roundup for sale to Amateurs, or just commercial versions)

IF you rotavate you will chop up all the pernicious weed roots, and any not 100% killed by Glyphosate will regrow.

So ... I would cover the plot completely instead. Apply the 2x doses of weedkiller first, if you are OK with that. I would cover with cardboard - ask at Bike shops or White Goods shops, they have the biggest cardboard boxes, and have to pay to have their "rubbish" taken away, so you are saving them money on disposal. Plastic membrane is expensive to buy, by comparison ...

Brambles (and probably some other things) will be a problem as they will be strong enough to push up the cardboard (or weed membrane / plastic), but other than that you should be able to prevent weed re-growth. If you are OK with using weedkiller then spray anything that does manage to push up the covering.

Ideally put down some organic matter before/below the cardboard. Manure would be great (even fresh), if you are feeling "flush" then a one-time application of Mushroom Compost would be good (its limey, but even if the soil is alkaline I don't think it matters "just the once" - its a great soil conditioner. Spent Hops will do, if you have a brewery near you, or council composted waste).

The cardboard needs weighting down with something - large stones / bricks etc. to stop it blowing away! It lasts a long time, even when it gets wet in persistent rain.

Pull it back to plant. If you do that in, say, a week's time you are going to still have loads of weed rubbish there, so you might want to have one small-ish corner of the plot that you hand dig, and clean the weeds out of, so that you have "conventional soil" for planting on Day One ... but for the rest I wouldn't bother.

Covering will also solve the "I can't tame it all yet/soon" problem.

I would say that was normal. Dunno if it applies to Raspberries, or just Apple Trees and the like. You may find they have a similar rule about cut flowers ...

 

Still not quite sure about this ... the membrane is somewhat expensive. It would be possible to grow through it each year, but for a large variety of crops the spacing etc. is a big of a snag. I know you can have "spare holes" used from one year to the next, but I think it fair to say that @shiney is growing a large amount of Runners, in the same space / spacing each year, plus "some others". I think for anyone growing a-few-of-everything (i.e. a fully functional veg garden) I think it would be a problem re-using the weed membrane effectively.

Having said that, I have 4' wide raised beds and have bought rolls of membrane to have a go this year. My intention is to have one-per-bed and, as I operate a strict 4-year rotation, maybe I will be able to reuse same-spacing in following years - I just need the label which bed each strip goes on ...

Hence I think, especially in first year(s) that cardboard might be better - until a more fixed and well understood planting schedule / plan is arrived at.

But woven weed membrane would certainly do a good job

 

P.S. 100gsm Zebel (UV Stablisied, whereas Yuzet is not stablised) is about 40p per sq.m.

e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121204993094

 

Jane, if you want to be an allotment gardener. you need to turn the plot over by hand first off and get as much weed root out as possible. THEN you can use a machine. I would go for the veg` growing first rather than fruit. I have recenty taken on a half plot and am growing veg`. As a self employed gardener I am limited for time, and am lucky to spend 2 hours a week onsite.

 

Dai!

 

Freddy, Shiney. Control yourselves. Remember, you are gardeners.lol lol lol

 

Dai

Nice to see you posting

Regards Jack McHammocklashing

 

And by definition, not 'all there'

 

Freddy, sane? Are you MAD Shiney?lol lol lol lol lol