The age old electricity question?!?!?!

Thank you Hex.

I think even those that support the regs do admit that there are flaws.

Its very typical of these days in that it is all fine and dandy if you only get electicuted by a tempory set up.
But highly illegal if you get a shock from a permanent one.:confused:

Dead is Dead.:eek:

 

It's not the place for it - I've had that user name for years on many fora - I didn't use it here to start a debate on the merits of DIY sheds.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418449 or http://www.theiet.org/publishing/books/wir-reg/17th-edition.cfm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418546

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418627 or http://www.theiet.org/publishing/books/wir-reg/electricians-guide-part-p-2nd-edition.cfm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0953788555 or http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLGUIDE.html

Low voltage (50 - 1000V AC or 120 - 1500V DC) and extra low voltage (up to 50V AC and 120V DC) are indeed covered by the regulations.

What's strange about that?

Yes, you can abuse non-permanent wiring and appliances outdoors, but you can also do likewise indoors, and it's always been that way.

People like The Institution of Engineering and Technology (née The Institution of Electrical Engineers), The British Standards Institute, The International Electrotechnical Commission...

Why do you think they should be locked away?

What would be your suggested solution to the dichotomy you think you've exposed here - a complete free-for-all of anyone and everyone being able to do what they like where they like, or the choice and use of portable appliances as tightly prescribed as fixed wiring?

 

If the cable is fixed it is regarded as permanent - the regs don't make any allowances because you claim that at some point in the future you will unfix it...

 

B A S if everything in an electric cable going out into the garden has to have all the safety rules for correct installation applied (and i'm not arguing that it should not) how come most pumps and u/v light installations carrying 240volts are sold with at least 10mtrs of flexible cable not protected against accidental damage at a point were you are most vulnerable should the cable insulation be cut or damaged,I know lots of people who have cut through hedge trimmer/lawn mower/extention cables some of the temporary repairs then done have been horredous,it makes a mockery or the whole issue of the installation when the end product(you or me)is not protected.

 

"how come most pumps and u/v light installations carrying 240volts are sold with at least 10mtrs of flexible cable not protected against accidental damage"

I was going to ask that question ... my submersible 240V pump has a moulded 13 amp on the end ... although only a couple of meters of flex, barely enough to get to the edge of the pond, let alone inside the house

 

The regs are in place to ensure theres at least some minimum level of protection.
Its to prevent the odd ones from hardwiring to the consumer box and putting nails in the fuseholder instead of a fuse from ending up as toast
I guess the insurance companies jump on it too.. electrical fire that burns the house down or death by electrocution caused by non certified diy wiring jobs = no payout.

 

Insurance is a big part of it and accountability ... you get an 'electrician' from the classified ads in to install a power point or some such and it ends up being responsible for your house burning down, wouldn't it make a difference if you found the law allowed any johnny-come-lately to advertise himself as an electrician?

We get the same in nursing - our profession is bound by many similar protocols. When I was a young woman, anyone could go to an agency, tell them they had a SRN and get work. I wrote a novel inspired by that. Now we have to have verifiable certificates and all sorts. Jolly good job too!

 

Part P is probably just the next logical step in the general scheme of things.
You have to use a corgy registered tradesman for gas and theres no great controversy there, very few people would consider messing around with gas..its dangerous stuff :D
Electricity? You can`t see it, it moves at the speed of light and it can kill you quite easily.. yep its a lot safer

 

I think thats what I was trying to say.

But you went about it much better Walnut:D

The gas debate doesn't "hold water", if you get my meaning,:D as with gas you have the appliance installed, and just use it.
You only rarely move a gas appliance unless its run on botted gas.
And I think you can do what you like with that, but I'm probably wrong.

So just to recap, my extension lead going through the wall of the consevatory, twined around a few shrubs and powering an air pump in the pond would probably be regarded as dangerous, but not come under part P.
Bearing in mind that its not fixed to anything and its got a 13amp plug on the indoor end.

 

Regards Gas: on your own property you can work do gas work, the only restriction is you cant alter anything on the supliers side of the metre or the actual metre. The only restriction to this being gas fires for which you would need a corgi ticket to work on even in your own home.

It is however illegal to carry out gas work profeshionally on other peoples property or rented out acomodation without corgi tickets.

To this end you could in your own home quite legitimately install a gas hob for instance or change a boiler thermocouple.

 

Originally posted by BaS

People like The Institution of Engineering and Technology (née The Institution of Electrical Engineers), The British Standards Institute, The International Electrotechnical Commission...

Why do you think they should be locked away?

What would be your suggested solution to the dichotomy you think you've exposed here - a complete free-for-all of anyone and everyone being able to do what they like where they like, or the choice and use of portable appliances as tightly prescribed as fixed wiring?


I think anybody that comes up with regs that tend to only cover one half of a problem are perhaps not really achieving anything.
Its similar to checking that the brickwork on a house is done correctly, but letting the owner put their own roof on.

I presume it also makes money somewhere down the line and creates jobs.

Maybe you are a a part P inspector BaS I dont know, you certainly seem to know an awful lot about it.

Ask yourself this, is the country a safer place, have garden electrical deaths gone down.
I'm sure you know the figures BaS, but I tend to think most people die at the buisness end, the tool or pump or whatever.

Agreed about wiring to the fuse box when you dont know what your doing, I have never done that.

How you regulate further is a problem, ie. the buisness end, but it is a worry as to what the officials will come up with next, and how much it will cost.

 

Hi Pete,

Everything you just said is sound and reasonable and put in a rational and pleasant manner. However, it is a waste of time with this particular individual.

 

I suspect BAS works as a building control officer or at a similarly low level of petty oficialism, perhaps just a retired spark with an ego bigger than the regs!

 

Just guessing eh, paul