The cost of living... what can we do?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Aug 26, 2022.

  1. Fat Controller

    Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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    You think we will? I have my doubts that it will be passed on to us - at least, not before there is a proper outcry and they are forced to do so.
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      Well for a long time they are bound to make the argument that any drop in price should be used to lower the amount the government are subsidising it by.
       
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      • Fat Controller

        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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        The government may not even be subsidising it though, that was the whole point of Truss' plan - - it too was a gamble, the first part of which was to keep prices down by pausing the green levies. If wholesale prices then rose above the cap even without those green levies then at that point the government would be subsidising, if wholesale prices fell, however...

        I do wonder if (in part) that has called a few folk's bluff - not necessarily all of them here in the UK, but if they were suddenly in the knowledge that no matter what they did there was not going to be any energy companies hitting the wall and there wasn't going to be mass pain inflicted on the population of the UK, plus the fact that inflationary pressure would be released... in short, if they were only in it to cause chaos, they were on a loser. And all of that is before we get to Kwasi's autumn statement as it was inferred (before HM died) that there was likely to be more to come to further ease inflation plus to help businesses grow and to pay people.

        I also think that the greenies have overplayed their hand... massively.
         
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        • Jiffy

          Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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          Not sure about this, The EU has put a wind fall TAX on renewable energy
           
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          • Clueless 1 v2

            Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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            Yeah, but the biggest economy in the EU also put all their eggs in one basket, buying all their gas from a country that nobody has ever trusted.
             
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            • Fat Controller

              Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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              That could be because the cost of some renewables are now quite low in comparison to gas produced energy, but as it is being charged at gas produced prices the profits are vast. The UK does something similar through 'contracts for difference' apparently (although I don't fully understand it all)
               
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              • Clueless 1 v2

                Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                I think it's a monumental mistake to tax renewables any more than taxing fossil fuels. It's on a par with building a dedicated pipeline from a country that nobody trusts. Why? Renewable energy is very profitable, and being profitable means it's worth investing in, which means more gets implemented, which drives down coat in the long run. It also supports a lot of well paid jobs everywhere in the supply chain, and construction. If it's more financially attractive to just find and sell more gas, that's what will happen, and we'll be in the same situation every time two countries have a fall out.
                 
              • Jocko

                Jocko Guided by my better half.

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                Talking about falling prices. My mother had an uncle who had a newsagent/tobacconist back in the 50s'. Every time cigarettes went up in the budget he had just got his stock in, but when they went down he had a shed load of the dear ones to sell. He died a rich man!
                 
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                • gks

                  gks Total Gardener

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                  Why not, they are heavily subsidised. If renewable energy is very profitable, why is Drax receiving in excess of £800 million every year in subsidies, doesn't sound like it's very profitable to me

                  Take away subsidies and carbon tax, renewable energy is not as cheap as we have been lead to believe.
                   
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                  • Clueless 1 v2

                    Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                    Is DRAX a good example of renewable energy? I thought it was coal fired, but a Google search tells me it's transitioning to biomass. I don't see biomass as renewable. Sure, you can grow stuff, burn it, and grow it back, but it's hardly carbon neutral or negative when you consider the cutting, processing and transportation.

                    I see renewables as being offshore wind and to a lesser extent for the UK, solar. Elsewhere, where geography and climate permit, I see it as hydro and geothermal.

                    It would be worth digging out financials on fossil fuel support. I'm going back a few years now but at one point, some big oil companies in the UK were being subsidised.

                    If genuine renewables are subsidised, I see no problem with that. We have to remember we can't compare like for like. Coal has been the fuel of choice since the start of the industrial revolution. Much longer if you consider the much smaller scale use of it before then. Oil and gas on the scale we see today came much later, but still a long time ago. Renewables at scale is a very new thing, and is only just starting to show economies of scale.

                    When deciding if something is 'cheap', we should really swap the term 'cheap' with 'good value'. Even ignoring environmental concerns, purely economically, fossil fuels will run out, possibly in our lifetimes (or certainly become increasingly difficult to find and extract) whereas renewables will only grow, and get cheaper as they do. But if we do decide to factor in the environment, what is 'cheap' today might not prove to be good value in a decade or so, when energy security is a massive issue and our kids hate us for ignoring a one time opportunity to not ruin their planet.
                     
                  • Jocko

                    Jocko Guided by my better half.

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                    I too do not see Biomass and Nuclear as renewables. Scotland generates a lot of renewable energy with on-shore and offshore wind, tidal in the Orkneys and hydro. To me, that is real renewable energy. I suppose biomass could be fine as long as carbon capture is used and processing of the biomass is green.
                     
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                    • JWK

                      JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                      I've been reading about folk using dehumidifiers to dry their washing, when the weather is too bad to use the clothes line. Apparently it can save a fair bit of money compared to a tumble dryer. I've got one in the garage which uses 150w (at current tariffs is about 4p/hour.) My tumble dryer uses 2.5kWh which cost about 72p/hour. People are saying it takes 3 hours or so to dry a load using a dehumidifier so a bit longer than tumbling. Another benefit the dehumidifier will provide a little heat to the room too.

                      We are going to give it a try over the winter.
                       
                    • Clueless 1 v2

                      Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                      We have a dehumidifier. I bought it because we were getting spots of mould in the bathroom and the kids bedroom. The dehumidifier seems to have solved that problem, even though we only run it occasionally.

                      I can't say I've noticed any heat output, but other than heat from the actual mechanics of it running, I'm not sure why people claim they generate any noticeable heat. It's basically a fridge with a fan. A compressor like you'd find in a fridge, freezes a grid. Air is blown across it, and any water in the air condenses out. As with a fridge there's a hot side and a cold side, but the two balance out.

                      Still, worth trying if you have one, but I wouldn't recognize folks buying one specifically hoping to get any noticeable heat off them.
                       
                    • Jocko

                      Jocko Guided by my better half.

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                      I have one and we use it all the time for drying washing. It uses 300watts and that is released into the room as heat. I work in the same room and I can vouch for the fact that it makes a difference to the temperature - to my detriment at this time of the year.
                       
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                      • pete

                        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                        Even a fridge generates some heat.
                         
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