The cost of living... what can we do?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by Fat Controller, Aug 26, 2022.

  1. noisette47

    noisette47 Total Gardener

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    Typically €180 for a 405w panel here. It's not clear if that's inc. VAT. Tut!:biggrin:
     
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    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      They say a 250w panel here costs about £400+. There's no VAT on them.

      As ours are on our roof the cable is only a few feet long. In through the roof (somewhere) and into the inverter which is fixed to the chimney breast. I think they fitted a metal frame to the roof struts (removed tiles and then replaced and sealed them). It took less than a day to erect scaffolding (and take it down), fit everything, wire them in, fit the inverter and run cable to the electric meter and get the electricity board inspector to approve it. By the time they finished they couldn't test it as we ended up with one of our regular power cuts :doh:. They came back the next day for that.
       
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      • JWK

        JWK Gardener Staff Member

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        @noisette47 we had a typical solar PV (16 panels yielding 4 kWp) system installed last June. In the summer we were generating twice as much as we used in 24 hours but, like most households, we use much more at night. So unless you have batteries the big factor is how much you get paid for exporting the excess back into the grid. We get paid around two-thirds of the price they sell back to us.

        In the 6 months since getting our system we have saved about one sixth of our electric consumption, equivalent to £400 per year. Also we are on track to get around £200 paid back to us for the excess exported.

        So for around a £6k cost of purchase/install it will take about 10 years to pay back, less if electric prices go up.

        On nice winter days like today, with a bit of sunshine, we are generating about the same as we use during daylight hours, we only produce a tiny excess.

        You should do better being further south. Yours will be south east facing and hopefully no shading would be ideal. Half of ours face west which means we generate longer into the evening but it lowers the overall annual yield. A big part of our cost was the scaffolding, it needed to be on two sides of the house, with yours it could be much cheaper working at a lower level too.
         
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        • gks

          gks Total Gardener

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          We have been to our local Aquarium today, inside there is a large poster which states the aquariums power comes from the solar panels they had installed in 2019. The 50 kWh system cost 48k installed, so £3840 for a 4 kWh system. Going by online sites in general your looking at between 6k and 8k for a 4 kWh system, I assume the 8k must be installed. The larger your system then in theory it should work out cheaper per kWh. If you could get 4 kWh system installed for 4.5k then it would be worth looking into. If electricity costs increase so will the panels, with less subsidies the carrot is getting smaller yet the stick is hitting you harder.
           
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          • noisette47

            noisette47 Total Gardener

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            I wouldn't even consider it if we had to rely on artisans to build the pergola and install the panels. The French gov only hands out grants if you use agreed installers but the ridiculous cost of doing so negates any benefits :dunno: We're not intending to sell any back to EDF either! That limits the size of the installation and incurs tax penalties.
            That said, neither of us is up to roofing, now, so that option will be very much more expensive than a freestanding pergola! (Which we need to construct anyway).
            We'll get our lovely local electrician to do the joining up, because it's a three-phase installation...tricky to balance......and he organises the inspection and signing off.
            This whole idea came about because of the enormous summer bills, due to having the irrigation pump on 24/7 + the pool pump, 2 fridges and three freezers. All we want is to produce enough leccy in the summer to cover consumption and a bit in winter to help with appliances, lighting etc. The heating and hot water are taken care of by the heat pump and it would complicate things enormously to mingle the two sources. It takes a lot of juice on start-up!
            Fortunately, DIY kits are widely available, and I'm getting a lot of useful feedback from a French PV forum, so there are no major drawbacks so far...:biggrin:
             
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            • noisette47

              noisette47 Total Gardener

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              That's definitely the case here. On the 're-sell the surplus to EDF' scheme, though, you're limited to a 3kWh array and then taxed on it too! Talk about stick instead of carrot!
               
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              • shiney

                shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                When we installed ours the Feed In Tariff was an amount per kWh paid to us whether the electricity went into the grid or we used it - and that is guaranteed for 20 years. We also get a small additional amount for what they estimate we feed back into the grid - there is no meter to check it :rolleyespink:. We don't get taxed on the money they pay us.

                Now that the electricity charges have gone so high it pays us to use our machines (washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher) when we have more sunshine. So we waited until this afternoon to turn on our dishwasher (it was full) when it was nice and sunny.
                 
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                • JWK

                  JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                  Sounds a good solution for your requirements. Over here a lot of the install costs are to do with certification. I had to have two surveys each took the best part of a day, measuring insulation levels, checking light bulb types, even measuring gaps under doors! Would easily save £2k avoiding all the red tape by DIY but wouldn't be able to connect to the grid, given that I am only going to gain £200 for that it hardly seems worth it.
                   
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                  • noisette47

                    noisette47 Total Gardener

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                    Good grief! It's all about paperwork here :biggrin: The French do so love their paperasse.... But given that even constructing a new dog kennel incurs a hike in Council Tax, I'm all for doing what the neighbours have been doing for decades, which is to quietly get on with improvements and keep my fingers crossed that the spy helicopters and drones are busy elsewhere :whistle:
                     
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                    • shiney

                      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                      We didn't have any of that when ours was installed :hate-shocked:. All that was required was an electrical check of the installation and the rest was just a form that was filled in. Nothing to do with insulation or anything similar. :noidea: The good old days, 9 years ago :heehee:
                       
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                      • shiney

                        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                        They use drones here as well and I had a letter from the council when I built the summerhouse telling me I had a new construction larger than was allowed without planning permission. I responded that I had checked in advance with Planning and that their spy drone couldn't see that part of the roof it recorded had no building underneath it (it was an outside porch) and that the internal measurements came within the allowable space. I told them that if they wished to make an appointment to see me at a convenient time for me I would allow them ten minutes to check it. I never got a reply. :whistle: :roflol:
                         
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                        • pete

                          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                          You would have thought, bearing in mind the state of our electrical generating capacity, the government would start a rolling programme to retro fit panels on all house roofs.

                          It might take many years to do and would need to be an ongoing programme.
                          but it would be a start, and it would need to be a programme that no future government could stop.
                           
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                          • Jocko

                            Jocko Guided by my better half.

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                            New build homes in Scotland MUST have solar panels but the Scottish government are talking about lifting that restriction in 2024. A backward step if you ask me.
                             
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                            • noisette47

                              noisette47 Total Gardener

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                              Which all goes to prove that this 'saving the planet' stuff only applies when they're raking it in or it provides jobs for the boys (the French gov excels at that) but not so keen when measures might affect their big business pals :mad: Hypocrisy rules OK.....
                               
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                              • gks

                                gks Total Gardener

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                                There was an online petition started to, require all new builds to have solar panels as condition of planning permission, there was 15,145 signatures.

                                The governments response, "We do not mandate solar panels to enable innovation and tailoring to individual sites. However we expect most developers will use solar panels to meet the recent uplift in energy efficiency standards", dated November 2022.
                                 
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