Tomato Grafting

Discussion in 'Edible Gardening' started by JWK, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. JWK

    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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    Shame about the rootstock DRB.

    The last few seeds I had left of Arnold were bought in 2012 and 5 out of 8 seeds germinated.

    I separated all my rootstock and scions into single pots today, they are ready to be grafted but I need to hang on a week to ensure I will be at home during the healing period - (work getting in the way again).

    The next photo is before I separated them into individual pots, this is the same tray as post #74 above from 2 weeks ago, the rootstock are much bigger still:
    20160227-P2270001.jpg

    Then in individual pots and back under the growlamps, it's getting a bit crowded under there and I've had to relegate some other plants to my greenhouse where they won't get so much heat/light:
    20160228-P2280003.jpg
     
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    • DRB

      DRB Gardener

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      JW. You need to pack up work at this time of year. Yes I agree you need to be around during the latter healing stages when introducing light and reducing humidity. Things can go wrong very quickly. I had that problem several times when I tried grafting for the first time 2 years ago. (Was still working then) Would pop home at lunch and find half of the grafts wilting of collapsed. Very annoying. At present I am babysitting a few fandango grafts I mentioned last time.
      I have a load of new Arnold stock coming through and have planted the scions yesterday. So hope I have the timing right. But from last years obs should be just about spot on for equal stems.
      I have a good lot of stuff under lights also. In my latest invention in the greenhouse. (A tent with lights and aircon!) see pics. The plants seem very happy. 18 hrs light 6 hrs dark. Fairly steady temperature
      image.jpeg
      image.jpeg
      image.jpeg
      image.jpeg
      It's not blown up yet so seems safe enough. Hope you get your grafts done soon otherwise will be a bit big. Will keep you posted (Unless incinerated beforehand!)
       
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      • JWK

        JWK Gardener Staff Member

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        I like your setup DRB, that's not your healing chamber I guess.

        Where did you get that fan and ducting from?

        So are you using that sprayer to raise humidity?
         
      • DRB

        DRB Gardener

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        That is just a propagation area for seedlings. The lights keep it at about 18-20°C There is a thermostat switchable to heating or cooling also. It is on cooling during the day as the temp tends to rise and kicks in at 20° and turns the fan on which blows cool air through the washing machine ducting. At night I turn it to heating and set it at 18°. As the lights are out for 6 hours it gets cold in the greenhouse but the fan is turned to 1Kw and maintains the temp ok. So seems to work. The fan is just a cheap one from Costco or Currys and I secured the duct reducer to it (Amazon). Bit of duct tape and a roll of silver insulation (Wickes) Job done. The sprayer is just for watering.

        Here is a pic of my healing chamber in the potting shed and description
        image.jpeg
        on left side is control for temp and humidity and also the extractor fan which comes on if the humidity rises above the setting (currently 93% RH Temp 22°C) There is a sensor inside for the air temp and humidity
        image.jpeg
        However. Last year I found that the extractor was on for a long time at lower RH and as it extracted warm air cool air was drawn in which tended to reduce the air temp too much. So this year there is a new addition. The lid is sealed with good draft excluder and on the right side of the chamber is a warming fan and input duct
        image.jpeg
        So now when the humidity rises above setting the extractor fan pulls out moist air and the fan pumps in warmed dry air and quickly resets humidity in the chamber with no loss of air temp. Certainly worked well in trial period.
        Only got a few aubergine grafts in there at present
        image.jpeg
        You can see sensor behind back left of module tray
        Still working on method to get introduction of light semi automated.
        Keeps me busy these days anyway, these little projects.

        Extractor end of chamber
        image.jpeg

        Warmed air input Air is deflected upwards and there is a flap valve to stop heat dissipating too fast from the inside
        image.jpeg
         
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        • JWK

          JWK Gardener Staff Member

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          Very good information and photos there DRB - you have a great setup.
           
        • Tracy_x

          Tracy_x Gardener

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          This is brilliant
           
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          • JWK

            JWK Gardener Staff Member

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            Grafted mine tonight, Arnold rootstock on the left and scion (Black Cherry) on the right:
            20160307-P3070008.jpg

            They are on the big size to be grafting so I've used a 'cleft' type joint:


            20160307-P3070009.jpg

            20160307-P3070012.jpg

            With a spring clip holding them together:
            20160307-P3070013.jpg

            The first one done and into a plastic box to keep up the humidity:
            20160307-P3070016.jpg

            I got 16 grafted plants done, they will now spend two days in those boxes with light excluded, then gradually increase light and reduce humidity - the grafts should have healed in 10 days time.

            This process knocks the plants back a couple of weeks, hence the reason for the earlier sowing date to compensate.
             
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            • DRB

              DRB Gardener

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              Nice pics JW
              Cleft grafting is a bit more tricky but often more successful. I'm nearly there with the first few grafts Submarine/Fandango. Grafted 9 and have 8 survivors so quite chuffed with that.
              image.jpeg
              Got them on edge of lights for today and then under full lights tomorrow. I always take it slow with the healing process. 11 days since I grafted these. Also second batch Arnold and Vanessas both up so will be about 2w till I can graft them.
              The Aubergines are very tricky to heal. You have to make very small incremental alterations in light and humidity otherwise they start to wilt. I'm like a full time bay sitter with them

              Got some Estamino rootstock and San Marzano at the right stage so will graft these this evening. Along with a few Bloody butchers. Will be just in time to try new lights over chamber.
              A double strip fluorescent with a white reflector. Will see if it works. There's a link here. https://cals.arizona.edu/grafting/healing
               
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              • JWK

                JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                Yes it took me quite a while to do it too, but given the thicker stems on mine I had little choice, the silicone tubes were too small so it was the only way to provide mechanical support. I've been watching a few YouTube videos of how the professionals do it and they manage 200 to 250 plants/hour - I only managed 16 :)

                This is about the best video about the grafting process I can find:


                and the best video from the same University about the healing process:


                8 out of 9 is a good result DRB.

                I found out the timings by trial and error over the years, but I'm still learning so picking up snippets from you and the internet are very useful to me.

                That is a very useful link regarding the light levels. I have a cheap light meter I use all the time (from Amazon about £10) - last weekend I was checking the outside light levels compared to under my growlamps and for the first time this year there was more light outside. I will use it when my healed plants go back under the growlamps, putting them at the side like you suggest.

                That link is the first I've ever read about temperatures:
                Up to now I thought they needed to be kept cool for the first 48 hours. Well I'm wrong about that so I'll move mine next to the boiler to get around 25C. I have them in two boxes so I'll only try half of them (just in case!)

                Another interesting item for your link:
                I'd sort of worked that out by trial and error again - mostly "error" in finding that the plants with saturated roots tended to fail.
                 
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                • DRB

                  DRB Gardener

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                  It's a good site for info. But last year I tried initially as they said to get the air temp up to 28-29°C and found that they all wilted. What happened was the healing chamber is heated by a wire element in the sand and the trays with the grafts in were resting on this. The sand was much hotter than the air and basically boiled the rootball! So now I have a couple of strips of 12mm wood running the length of the chamber and rest the trays on them so they are not in contact with the sand.. I find if the air temp is about 22°C they are plenty warm enough. In fact there are quite a few academic papers on trials of different temperatures for healing with hardly any difference in results once the temperature Is over 20°C (I have far too much time over the winter months!!) So if your healing chamber is basically above 20°C with high humidity and dark for the first 2-3 days you will be fine is my take on it. The real trick is introducing light and reducing humidity slowly and I think that is trial and error and just going very slow.
                  Got the strip light over healing chamber up and running this evening. This might be a bit of trial and error as regards the height which is optimum. Light meter reads 5000Lux close up (about as that website states). So will let you know how it goes.
                   
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                  • JWK

                    JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                    Mine spent the second day after grafting next to the boiler and in the dark:
                    20160309-WP_20160309_001.jpg

                    Tonight it's been 48 hours so after trying them under different lamps, like desk and standard lamps I ended up moving them under my grow-lamps where they get about 6,000 lux:
                    20160309-P3090001.jpg

                    20160309-P3090002.jpg

                    A peek inside one of the boxes:
                    20160309-P3090003.jpg

                    So these grafted toms will stay under the growlamps over night and then I'll swap with my other plants (Giant Onions and various cuttings) so each get 12 hours.
                     
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                    • DRB

                      DRB Gardener

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                      Sorry for delay. Busy rotavating allotment now a bit drier. Plants in tent in greenhouse seem very happy with climate
                      image.jpeg
                      I give most away as plant way too many. 6 varieties of aubergine.
                      Grafted plants doing well and fully weaned
                      image.jpeg
                      Two lots of tomatoes grafted so far and only lost one of the second lot Vanessa/Arnold (top right) Got 3 aubergine grafts in foreground. Grafted 8 in this batch. I still have not found the right method for healing these more successfully. Got to day 8 with six of them and reduced humidity a bit more and within 2 hrs 3 wilted and died. Still happy with 3 in this batch. Have got a further 6 just gone into healing chamber. I will try to be even slower weaning this lot and see what happens. Also trying to graft some San Marzano so will see how they go.
                       
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                      • JWK

                        JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                        Mine have done their time in the healing chamber and I've got 11 survivors out of 16.
                        Here's the survivors:
                        20160317-P3170001.jpg

                        and the failures:
                        20160317-P3170003.jpg

                        The grafting clips came off tonight:
                        20160317-P3170010.jpg

                        20160317-P3170011.jpg

                        Some of the cleft grafts look a bit ugly but they all seem to be healed OK:
                        20160317-P3170006.jpg

                        I'm well pleased with the amount that have survived this year I have two or three spares just in case.
                         
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                        • DRB

                          DRB Gardener

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                          Healthy looking grafts those. I think that is a good result for cleft grafting. It's much more tricky and the plants are bigger with more foliage. Just finished last lot of tomato grafts which have just put in healing chamber. I have had good success with tomato grafts this year. I have only done top grafting and updated chamber seems to have been useful.
                          image.jpeg
                          Got a few aubergine grafts also but still find them very delicate during the healing process
                          These are the last lot of grafts ready to go back to the greenhouse now. 2 out of 5. One pushed graft off. One collapsed and another nearly collapsed but 2 OK.

                          image.jpeg

                          I think it is worth trying as I tried to overwinter 4 aubergines from last year. Just thrown out 3 which did nothing, but the survivor was the only one that was a graft from last year
                          image.jpeg
                          We'll see if it does alright this year. (Weather permitting)
                           
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                          • JWK

                            JWK Gardener Staff Member

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                            Yours look very healthy DRB.

                            When I grafted mine I stuck all the rootstock amputated tops into pots with a poly bag to keep them from wilting, after a couple of weeks they have sprouted new roots:

                            20160321-P3210001.jpg

                            The idea was for a second batch of grafting for 16 outdoor tomatoes. Trouble is I didn't start my scions until a few days ago and they are just tiny seedlings, so I got my timing wrong. Hopefully they will catch up in a week or two. Given how expensive rootstock seed is I think this could be a useful trick to get double the number of plants.
                             
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