Maybe any footy fans will know that our local team, Boro (Middlesbrough) have the riverside stadium. They used to have ayresome park until about late 1980s or early 1990s when the riverside was built. Riverside stadium is literally about1 mile from the same steel works that made the steel for some fairly famous structures all over the world. Riverside is also about 1 mile from teesport, where the cheaper German steel used to build the stadium was landed. It was an outrage for a while, but Boro fans still went to the new stadium. Burger vans still pulled up outside it on match days.
Its called free world trade, we buy the cheapest. Which is why our manufacturing went to the wall. We cant compete with cheap labour. So now we ship in the labour from eastern europe to do the jobs we cant out source. Its a vicious circle with no end.
I hope everyones had a good day today. The Europeans certainly did as we just gave them another £50,000,000. I can think of a few things Britain and its people could have done with that money today. Only 120 more days till voting or another c. £6 BILLION to them from us mugs.
Farage again (one of his earlier wild statements was £55000000 per day)? The net figure allowing for CAP receipts, rebate and arrears for previous years is just over 28000000 per day. Or 3.36 billion for the next 120 days. Yes it is a lot of money but £180 per year from everyones GNP figure of about £40000 per year represents pretty good value in my opinion.
Who are these Europeans you speak of? Last I knew, that would be me, and you. I keep an open mind. I look beyond the headlines. I know, for example,that the very expensive redevelopment of our local sea front was funded by the eu. The redevelopment of the run down inner city neighbourhood I used to live in was also funded by the eu. It is so easy to point out how much money Britain pays into the eu. Few ever bother to consider what we get back. The whole point of the fees is to invest in development throughout the whole union. Including Britain. If the whole of Europe was on an equal footing, then trade within the union can do better. It is far from ideal. But please, this is our future, and our kids future. It's surely important enough to make a reasoned argument one way or another rather than throwing around ukip style headlines.
I've been to Redcar and seen the massive redevelopment on the seafront..fantastic, and what a great beach!! But it does highlight a couple of things [a] Our governments, [whatever party], are reluctant to give money for towns etc outside the London limits and It is a bit strange, logically, that the UK gives money, that it won't spend on such well worth projects, to a foreign organisation that then gives it back to the UK for redevelopment projects
That is a really interesting remark and made me stop and take a breath for a moment. Why? Well, to be fair, I have never, ever, called myself "European" I've called myself a Maid of Kent (with great pride); even "Southerner" (but only because I'm the only "Southerner" in my family and its an "in" joke ); English and more loosely, British; but, interestingly, never "European". I get the sense, from the debates I've heard (which is limited, can't hear them *all*) that if those people were asked if they were "European" the vast majority might even do the double take I did Taking that just a little step further ... when I was growing up, we never referred to our neighbours across the Channel as "Europeans" either; they were the "Continentals" - people from the Continent! If we took a day trip to France, we would be "visiting the Continent", not "travel Europe". Do you call yourself (naturally, in every day speech) European? Do you *think* of yourself, naturally, as European? It's an interesting one, for sure.
Exactly. Every government in my lifetime thus far has demonstrated consistently that the whole of the north east region is simply not here. It's imaginary. Us northerners are a work of fiction. Only the south east exists. The eu says otherwise. that means that within the eu, we get funding that wouldn't come from Westminster.
@"M", no I don't routinely call myself a European. But I live in Europe, so technically I am. If someone had said that we are giving 55 million per day to "the earthlings" I'd have been equally quick to refer to myself as an earthling, because technically I am, even though I don't routinely call myself one. My point was a simple one. I was demonstrating the absurdity of referring to us giving money to us.
I think the point is that the money we put into the EU, (how much it really is I dont have a clue), goes into a central pot and gets spent where the EU decides to spend it. If we get as much out as we put in is debatable. But you cant deny that once it goes in, its up to them where it gets spent. Well we dont get much funding from the EU down here, I dont think, and looking at the state of the roads, I dont think we get much from Westminster either.
Yes, I totally get your point re: the money aspect. But, your response highlighted to me a very interesting issue on "perception". So, it isn't a big leap for those "on the Continent" to affiliate themselves as "Europeans"; however, I can also see that this could be a fundamental issue for people voting in the referendum if they do not automatically/naturally view themselves as "European". It serves to highlight how disenfranchised they may feel which could prove to be a vote swinger.
If we got as much out as we put in, then what would be the point? Surely, in investment terms, we would wish to get more out? (if the money were invested and proportionately redistributed that is). In charitable terms, if we donate more than we *need* (and that word need is subjective) we would be ok with helping to bring up to scratch other member nations who need extra support? And that raises another point, isn't it down to our (elected) MEP's to be battling in our best interests? Do you know (without looking) who your MEP representative even is? Have you spoken to them about your concerns? Or, what you wish them to be promoting? In fairness, I hadn't taken much interest in who my MEP was/is ... until *now* They were ethereal prior to this ... very *meh*. Not anymore Maybe, that is the whole back story to all of this? People here have been too complacent, perhaps? Voting for MEP's without really hearing what they stand for? Lack of interest/understanding of how the whole system works? I know I am understanding just a smidgen more than I did before this all kicked off. I know that little bit of extra "understanding" will give me a platform for debate with my family members. If nothing else, that surely has to be a good thing?
I think it's in our mental/intellectual "genes" that we are an Island people/race with the Channel emphasising the fact. We've, historically, ventured out into the world alone and built Empires, fought wars on our own, etc. But, of course, while we were doing that other nations were developing their own empirical ambitions while we organised other countries into trading treaties. But the English Channel has been a symbol of our separation from European countries, both physical and mental, that has characterised our independence, sovereignty, politics, and control of our own borders.
Who does know how, in reality, the whole EU system works other than those actually sitting behind the desks??. I can't ever remember voting for a MEP I wouldn't say we're too complacent, but we do feel distanced and outside an organisation that seems bent of dictating laws to sovereign countries and taking over control of the way we trade, our countries finances and policies, with an agenda of Federalisation.
