I agree, Freddy, that initially Tony rejuvenated the Labour Party and the country but somewhere along the long, hard, political road he seemed to lose his way. The Labour Government suffered from the fighting between him and George Brown and also he somehow became, to me, untrustworthy taking on the persona of a shady secondhand car salesman. I don't think many Labour voting people would actually say that they would vote for him again, plus he hasn't fared well when under investigation by various committees.
I accept, that there's some question over his decision to take action in Iraq, although as yet it seems inconclusive. We'll have to wait for the Chilcot report. Until then it's all just heresay, AFAIC. I think a lot of lessons have been learned about trying to sort out other counties mess. Damned if we do, damned if we don't...
By far the most measured take I have so far listened to or read about with regard to staying or leaving the EU was a talk given by Giles Merritt at the LSE - it is worth an hour of anyone's time. http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/videoAndAudio/channels/publicLecturesAndEvents/player.aspx?id=3514 Personally, I hope the UK vote to remain in the EU as the loudest cries to leave (around Europe) are coming from the far right and that alone sets alarm bells off in my head.
I'm not so sure. The leave campaign already has a guaranteed 13% of the votes (the people who went for UKIP in the last election). Proportional representation - the UK Parliament simply doesn't represent the political view of the UK - but then that's an entirely different thread.
It seems to me that the leave side is not just winning, it's pretty much the only side still standing. Remain seems to have passed through the desperation of doom mongering, and is now desperately using its emergency fallback, the accusation of racism and fascism on the leave side. I'm voting to leave. One of the main reasons I'm going to do so is that I am NOT racist. The eu is doing a deal with turkey that reduces refugees to the same status as a disease. Independent observers have reported that Turkish officials have forcibly returned unaccompanied Syrian children back into Syria. Turkey has also pretty much trapped fleeing humans in a war zone by closing their border. What turkey is reported to be doing makes me feel physically sick and ashamed to be the same species. The fact that the eu is bribing them to do it is perhaps even worse. I for one do not wish to be associated with any of that. In a few decades, present time will be history. I'm already ashamed of Britain for some stuff I learned that happened here when I was little (lots of blatant racial discrimination ). I don't want my kids to learn in 20 or 30 years that their country was part of the organisation that willfully sent children who'd escaped from war right back to their almost certain death just to avoid any political awkwardness.
Actually, clueless, I believe that according to the latest Poll the Leave campaign is leading by a couple of points.
Depends which poll you look at. http://www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/ But my gut instinct isn't based on polls. It's based on the chatter on Facebook as well as various TV documentaries and such, and observations as I drive about and see both official and home made leave related posters everywhere I look.
You have to look at the Poll that takes a Poll of the Polls that take a Poll of all the Polls, clueless, to realise that you can make your own mind up without taking any notice of the Polls.
The only poll that matters is the one that takes place on the 23rd. I've switched of listening to both sides now, far too much rubbish being spoken, they are not doing themselves any favours, in fact I think quite the opposite.
Well, I'm getting my ladder ready so that I can climb down off my fence. I had better be careful as I don't want to go the way of my pal, Humpty Dumpty. I've spent millions of hours sifting through the lies and exaggerations and am looking at how firm the ground is on the Out side to see whether it will support my ladder. The In side have been muddying the water a bit much and it may be too slippery on their side. I've always wondered how they decide how to find the people to Poll. Most Polls only sample between 1,000 and 2,000 people. I'm not sure that they take them from a proper cross section of the population Annoyed a little bit, maybe, but cross? Dunno! I've not been polled - but I've been keeping my head down in my bunker (except when sitting on the fence) as Armageddon is on the way. I see that Yellen (head of the Fed) has now entered the fray. She's saying that a vote for Out will hit the U.S. economy! So, if the Dollar is going to be hit as well as the Pound and the Euro it looks as though we'll be back to square one in comparison to each other.
Betting odds provide a better clue to the outcome of elections and referendums than opinion polls. Bookies are far to wiley to give anything away.Last week several bookmakers cut their odds for a vote to remain to 1/6. That means people would have to risk £6 for a potential profit of £1. Odds to leave are 7/2 , so come on you leavers put a pony on leave ( Not actually sure what a pony is in betting parlance !)
Could be the same as when we had our referendum. Those wanting to split up the UK and become independent stuck posters up everywhere and spent a good deal of time vandalising the No posters! They made a huge amount of noise and were convinced they were going to win the vote but it is at the ballot box where it counted. It isn't always those that shout the loudest that get their way. Agree with HarryS. the bookies very seldom get it wrong and while the odds on leaving the EU have shortened they are way off the prices being offered to stay.
