To be honest, if I believed the eu would continue as it had done until maybe the last couple of years or so, I'd vote in, with 100% confidence in my decision. But I don't think it is the devil we know. I think it is a rapidly evolving, devil. Besides which, there isn't a union anyway. There's Merkel. Destroying Greece first financially, and then logistically by inviting everyone, not just actual refugees but also economic migrants, to bypass the system and come to Germany, knowing full well that the first eu state they'd reach would be Greece. And the eu's prized shengen, or should that be shenanigans, fared well in its first proper test didn't it, with each member doing its own thing, stranding thousands in Greece. So what about the defence and security aspect of the union? Well, we have admissions of total communication failure between members with regards to intel. The people of France have paid an enormous price for that eu failure. Libya has said the eu patrols of the med are a farce. Economy. Several members are on the verge of bankruptcy, and the UK is the second biggest contributer. Are we propping it all up? How long can we afford to do that? In terms of employment, there is no doubt that some jobs are made more possible by eu membership. But equally there are jobs put at risk by continued membership. And then there are many more jobs where it will make little or no difference.
Now I promised myself not to get involved with this thread but I'm getting so irritated by ignorant people who don't look at the whole picture! So many people are voting 'out' because they don't agree with immigration, but there's more to look at than just that one policy .....that's better now I've got that off my chest! Oh & for the record I can't decide which way to vote!
Yes . If you have money / a healthy economy , you can try and make the world a little better. If you screw your economy up by leaving , all you can do is tread water as the other trading group nations pass you by.
Fair point, if it works. But are we making the world a better place. Recent developments seem pretty terrifying to me. There is still a chance, almost all hope that someone will change my mind. I asked earlier if anyone could give me examples of Britain leading the eu. Nobody could. Now I'll ask how the eu is making the world better, when IS is owning the middle east and leaking out to the rest of the world, Russia and Ukraine are at war, North Korea is poking America with a stick, and China is actively and deliberately crippling the west financially while at the same time massively scaling up its military preparations. The world is on the verge of war. Britain pays the price of a new aircraft carrier every year to Europe, while Europe's biggest economy and eu influencer, Germany, recently admitted to having no practical defence capability at all, with 9 of its whopping count of 18 outdated fighter jets not air worthy. So, I'd genuinely like to know. Because I hate the situation we've been placed in and sincerely wish it didn't come down to a simple in or out, how is the eu making the world a better place?
Sorry, but the bloke is a chump! He was on the radio the other day and said that the money that we pay the EU every year (he continues to quote the pre rebate figure) could be invested in infrastructure and would transform our economy. Really? It wouldn't even pay for half of the Crossrail 2 project. Not only has the man no grasp of the scale of national economics (and he wants to be PM?) but he forgets the billions that come back to support our farmers, environmental initiatives etc. So either he will stop paying them or he will have less to play with than he thought! Second largest economy, fourth biggest contributor after the rebate.
Yes, but the farming subsidies etc are simply our money coming back to us - the balance goes to supporting other eu members. So we will have enough cash to continue to pay the previous subsidies and more. Immigration for me is the key issue - an uncontrolled drain on resources that is paid for by taxes derived from our ability to trade tariff free with the eu. Control immigration - trade and the tax generated from such all of a sudden takes second place - we take back control. I'm still out - the vast majority of those I speak to are also out. I see the vacuum cleaner guy is also out - well done sir.
While I too will be voting out, I won't be basing my decision on immigration. We do need to curb immigration, simply because some areas can't cope. But I don't think leaving the eu will make a great deal of difference. Immigration by eu citizens accounts for about half the total. That means half get in without the perks of the eu anyway. That means it is possible. That means any eu citizens that really want to be here after we leave will still find a way. Which kind of also exposes a 'remain ' argument for the lie that it is. That we'll be completely isolated in every respect. Most of the world is not in the eu, yet we can still go there and people from there can come here. For me, the eu has become cumbersome and inflexible. All empires do. And sooner or later all empires collapse because once they get too big, it becomes impossible to please all of the people all of the time, so resentment brews.
Jonathan Hill is the current European Commissioner for Financial Stability, Financial Services and Capital Markets Union. You can listen to his recent talk on the Single EU Capital Market at the LSE on the link below. I was a bit gobsmacked when he started to talk as I didn't expect him to be English! I'm also thinking there must be is huge conspiracy between economists and academics as they all appear to be saying 'stay' . http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/videoAndAudio/channels/publicLecturesAndEvents/player.aspx?id=3510 PS I have just had an email from someone who said if Britain vote to stay in they are leaving the UK!
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but it seems to me that that the impression given (and perceived) is that the EU commission make decisions that we have no power over, or we have no input into. I think the problem here is that our MEP's are virtually unknown or heard of. I don't have a clue who my MEP is. Now, they might be doing a grand job, but who knows?
I've been waiting for someone to mention our MEP's too. I get annoyed when people say that the Germans or the French etc etc make all the decisions..... they don't we send Members of Parliament out there to vote on issues on our behalf. If your not happy with the way things are going then do something about it and vote your MEP out .
PS.... If you don't vote in your MEP elections, then really the same applies as when you don't vote in the General Election..... you've got no right to complain if you don't vote.
