Ukraine

The trouble is the population are being fed bull**** and its surprising how many seem to believe it..
Unless you live there and was born there I dont think we can understand it.

 

I think they may be starting to realise that no one - in the civilised world - believes anything that they say any more. Any credibility that Russia had has long since gone. Lavrov seems to have gone quiet since there was an outburst of laughter from the assembled crowd - when he accused Ukraine of starting the war - he didn't look too pleased.

You can tell Russia are lying - because they are talking.

 

We have uninformed people in this country who just believe everything they are told, lets face it, if you dont you are classed as a part of the conspiracists society and an outcast amongst those that know "better", or should I say those that follow the line.

We also have free thinking people, but often that get silenced.

Adolf Hitler kept Germany going for many years with his policies, and had huge followings.

We get fed all kinds of rubbish, and we believe it, so why shouldn't the poor people of Russia believe what their government tells them.

As for other countries, its about if they can profit out of the situation regardless of who is right or wrong.

 

Yes no sort of.

We certainly have our fair share of ignorant fools in the UK, as with anywhere else.

We also have the extreme end of the spectrum that believe all the conspiracy theories even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

But I think the key difference is the middle ground. How significant a percentage of a population the middle ground I think depends on access to information. In the UK we are quite privileged in that we have fairly open access to info from all over the world, from all kinds of people. In places like Russia or China access to information is much more tightly controlled so those that take the risks and putting in the effort to find alternative sources of info are often on the fringes.

The ordinary Russian people, especially the more tech savvy younger ones that look beyond state TV, are much more liberal than than the Russian state wants others to believe. The trouble is most of them understandably dare not speak up. It's not unusual for people to be beaten up and then detained on trumped up charges if they don't tow the line.

 

Kind of suggests that anyone one who is not following the official line is just involved in conspiracy theories.
Nobody is allowed to have their own opinions these days wherever you live, ok you dont get sent to Siberia here, like you do there, but if you dont tow the line they have ways of making life difficult, like setting the population onto you if dont want to wear a mask as just one example.

 

The key difference is if someone makes a constructive reasoned argument, they will usually be at least listened to by most, and debate will typically happen. There are some that will stick to their beliefs even in the face of compelling evidence that they're wrong, but I think such people are in the minority. The unfortunate part is when some people just believe what they're told, don't question it, and nobody ever challenges their views so they have no reason to do anything other than carry on in blissful ignorance.

 

The only thing is that people follow the official line and follow in blissful ignorance, because that is what they are told by government, here and in Russia.
I don't think there is much difference really, half the population don't even care and just do as they are told.

 

Looks like Putin has murdered Prigozhin. Airplane crash is the official story.

 

There's been lots of news about the counter offensive being slow.

Doesn't seem that way to me. When you consider how long wars usually last, I'd say the Ukrainians are doing pretty well.

I read today that for every artillery round Ukraine has, Russia has ten. Yet the Ukrainians are still moving forward despite the Russians being well and truly bedded in.

Also in recent news there's the Russian bomber that got blew up, which has already been discussed in this thread. And today I read of a column of Russian tanks being blitzed, hundreds of Russian soldiers at a training camp being wiped out, and today I read that the Russians have decided to sink some of their own ferries near the Kerch bridge to form a barrier against sea drone attacks. It sounds like desperation because they're on about using six sunken ships to protect 19 kilometers of bridge.

I also saw an animated map showing Russian control since the start of the war, and as it has changed over time. The Russian occupation part of the map obviously swelled early on, but then has been quite turbulent since but generally looks like it's shrinking.

 

I think the major difference is that we have a free press, Russia doesn’t. We have the right of protest, Russia doesn’t. We have the right to vote out our leader, Russia doesn’t by virtue of the fact that any opposition leader gets banged up, or bumped off.

 

We still have a lot of people who dont question anything they are told, and a lot who get away with causing chaos for everyone else, because they think they are right.
Surely something in the middle needs to be how thing are.

I will say at times of emergency we dont have a free press and are fed the same kinds of propaganda that Russia is probably turning out now.

 

We have unrestricted access to media from around the world though. The Russians usually don't. The tech savvy ones do, those that no how to get round a very secure, state controlled firewall, but they're in the minority, and being geeks, I suspect like geeks everywhere they largely get ignored by the masses.

In the UK it's far easier to get access to the media of other countries, but granted you still have to make a small effort to look for it. But the difference being here you just have to be interested and have internet access, whereas in Russia the same is true but you also need to have some pretty good tech knowledge to get round the firewall.

 

Well, we have unrestricted access, maybe, but there is an awful lot of rubbish out there, that we have access to, and often believable, if you want to.

 

Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin was on a plane that crashed in western Russia, according to the country's aviation authority. That is the ultimate high window to fall out of!

 

That's very true. That's why we have to be careful to stay objective, check the credibility of sources, and check the political orientation etc.

But that takes effort, and most people don't want to or don't have the time. It's a bit of a nightmare really because some people just believe what some completely random person posted on Facebook.

So I agree, we're all (at least at a societal level if not individual level) easily led and misled.

But all that said, we do at least have access. And our BBC at least pretends to be unbiased (it's about as biased as it gets if the government is pushing a particular message).