Ukraine

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    They'll do it to shore up their position against the US and that financial bloc they created with Russia, Iran etc.

    I'm at the point where I want anyone wanting and able to work together to just do that and the power grabbing psychopaths to get on with it amongst themselves. There just isn't the need for killing people. Probably end up in a world of two halves which I'm sure is a storyline out of star trek!
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      Surely China relies on the west to buy all the junk they produce.
       
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      • Loofah

        Loofah Admin Staff Member

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        I'm sure they're stretched but they have various very long term plans in place. If trading with the West doesn't pan out then they fall back to other markets such as Russia and middle East.
        People seem to forget that China also had empires and are brilliant thinkers. The policies put in place are all geared to enhancing China's powers base.
         
      • pete

        pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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        When you see all those container ships stacked up all going to western countries from China you have to wonder if those other countries really have the same kind of buying power.
         
      • gks

        gks Total Gardener

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        China will have no issues in exporting goods. The population of Far East countries and African nations as they develop will boost trade from China. With the exception of the States, China's, top 5 trading partners will be far east countries.
         
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          Last edited: Sep 21, 2022
        • pete

          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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          That's good, maybe we will stop buying their rubbish then. :biggrin:

          I have no idea who is China's biggest customer, but surely it would be a dent in their income.
          And a big dent in our imports which we would have to get elsewhere at higher prices.
          Surely it would be a lose lose situation for both sides.
          Isn't it about time someone worked out that none of these sanctions actually work in the way intended, oh they might work on a small country like Iran, regarding it not affecting us too much, but when it goes global there are no winners.
          I can't see an end to this, but it's about time someone somewhere started talking common sense.
          Otherwise why the hell are we still worrying about climate change, because the way it's going none of that is going to matter.
           
        • clanless

          clanless Total Gardener

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          Or has a military powerful enough. They would get flattened very quickly by the USA - never mind the entire NATO alliance. Taiwan will give them a bloody nose - when they finally decide to 'occupy' Taiwan - and that's without support from the USA - which Joe had already pledged.

          China is unable to manufacture complex silicon chips - they can't supply them to Russia - but hello - Taiwan has the skills/expertise to make complex chips.

          One China and all that - yes - China want Taiwan because of their far more advanced technology.

          China is all bluff - just like Putin.

          I see that Putin is calling in his lightly trained reserves. He won't give up until Russia is on it's knees.
           
        • Jocko

          Jocko Guided by my better half.

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          China sells goods to the West for big money. If they have to sell to Africa they will be unable to charge what they do. China desperately needs to keep the West on side probably why they continue to leave Taiwan alone.
           
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          • Clueless 1 v2

            Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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            If I was Xi Jin Ping, I'd be furious at Putin right now.

            Putin has completely scuppered China's plans. China has spent the past few years really gearing up it's military. The west has done pretty much nothing to match it because our politicians, and probably the vast majority of regular people, couldn't comprehend the notion that we might find ourselves on the verge of world war 3. Putin's actions serve as a wake up call. Germany has changed its stance on pacifism. And smaller NATO members everywhere have committed to significantly increase military spend, while none NATO countries are asking to join. All because of Putin.

            Ukraine is a nation of tough people, and if they were ever on the fence, I'm pretty sure they're now west leaning. Germany and other big consumers of Russian fuel are frantically looking for alternatives which in the mid to long term develops energy independence, making it harder for other countries to hold people to ransom. Companies everywhere are looking at their supply chains rather than assuming they can always source from wherever they've always sourced from in the past.

            It's all a massive mess for China, which was already having major economic wobbles before all this kicked off.

            Of course this will be of little comfort if Putin turns out to be insane enough to start a nuclear war.
             
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            • clanless

              clanless Total Gardener

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              Tearful children and spouses have been pictured waving off Russian fathers and husbands as Putin's mobilisation begins.

              Yes. 2 weeks training and then straight to the front line to fight against Western trained soldiers with current combat experience and armed with the latest Western weapons. It's not just the Ukrainian soldiers either - the conscripts will have to deal with armed Partisans and the Ukrainian people themselves.

              I heard that out of a batch of 40 prisoners who went to the front line - 38 were killed, 1 was wounded and the other 1 escaped unhurt.

              This is a slaughter - plain and simple - I'm not surprised that people are leaving Russia.
               
              Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
            • Loofah

              Loofah Admin Staff Member

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              Russian warfare. Putin wants the Soviet Union back and he's using the same tactics it seems - just keep throwing bodies at it until you win. Or not.
              Taking the media at face value for a minute (as ridiculous as that is), their situation got me thinking. Would a world war even be possible now? Western nations would revolt en masse if draft papers were issued for a broad scale war. The people just wouldn't stand for it. If they're running out in one of the most oppressed countries going, then western countries with all their freedom would stick two fingers up and kick out the politicians
               
            • Clueless 1 v2

              Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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              It seems to me that a world war wouldn't look like the Russia / Ukraine war. The situation in Ukraine, perhaps because of the terrain, perhaps politics, I'm not sure, but it feels very old fashioned. If the media is to be believed, it looks like it's not that different to trench warfare of WW2. Basically poorly trained foot soldiers and battle tanks.

              I think the staples of a modern war would look very different. I think the it will have a huge cyber warfare element, and a space element, taking out spy, Comms, and navigation satellites. In terms of bombs and bullets, I think that's going to more about missiles, drones, and automated countermeasures than infantry men with rifles.

              Let's hope this all stats hypothetical. With a bit of luck something unfortunate will happen to Putin and his inner circle before it gets that far.
               
            • clanless

              clanless Total Gardener

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              Heard on the news this morning that the US has been in 'secret' contact with Russia - warning them off using Nukes in Ukraine - the news reader used the words 'deadly consequences'.

              Rumour circulating is that NATO will not use nukes in retaliation - instead they will sink the Russian navy.
               
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              • Clueless 1 v2

                Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                I read an article about that too.

                So, Putin is justifying his war to his people by saying the West is threatening their existence. While.... America has been secretly threatening them.
                 
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                • Jocko

                  Jocko Guided by my better half.

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                  I don't think anyone needs to threaten him. He knows full well that if he uses nuclear weapons he will cease to exist in minutes.
                   
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