Ukraine

I think it's a case of wait and see.

 

I predict it will largely disappear from the news by the end of the week.

 

If it was Russia that fired it NATO will send them a stiff letter. Not that Russia will be blamed. They are already saying that if it is a Russian "made" missile the Ukrainians have those in their arsenal.
Despite the bluster, Europe (including the UK), is s**t scared of Russia.

 

We are in a big enough mess trying to deal with the fact Russia has attacked Ukraine.
Do we really want, or need ,an all out war with Russia .
Scared yes, of the consequences.

 

That's how it should be though. Regardless of Russia's apparent inability to fight a conventional war against a smaller military, they have nukes, and their leader and his inner circle are all psychopaths. Anyone who isn't scared of a psychopath is either a psychopath themselves, stupid, or dead.

War is itself stupid. Except for a very small minority who benefit. It's a way to take money from the masses to give to a very few. All the weapons we're rightly sending to Ukraine cost money. Us peasant folk pay for that through our taxes. The guys and girls in the weapons factories will get their fairly average wages, while the top dogs and major shareholders will get most of it. Putin isn't doing it for the hell of it. He'll have his eye on Ukraine's expansive coal seems and their fertile land that grows a significant chunk of the world's wheat and seed oil crops. Britain and the west aren't bothered about the Ukrainian people (well at individual level we might be, but that's not why our governments are helping). They're doing it because it's beneficial to be allied with the nation that provides so much of our food commodities and because if Ukraine falls to Russia, then it would only be a matter of months before eastern Europe as a whole is once again the Soviet Union.

 

The Russian army - supposedly the 2nd strongest army in the world - are having their rears spanked by a country that is not yet using the latest NATO weaponry.

Military strength will not end this war - it will end when the Russian war chest runs dry - which by all accounts won't be long now.

Interesting to hear the International Legion of Territorial Defence of Ukraine consists of around 20,000 soldiers from 55 different countries - including some from Russia.

 

And rightly so for the reasons given. I was a 14-year-old at the time of the Cuba Crisis so I know what it feels like to be scared of a nuclear war. There is nothing really that the West can do. Sanctions won't work unless the rest of the world takes sanctions against the countries that trade with Russia. I cannot see that happening soon.

 

Poor Ukraine, a bit of snow and some football matches and the People have forgotten
these poor souls still strugling
I have sent a Christmas shoe box gift to some child over there, as I have to a Romanian
orphanage
God bless you all in Ukraine

 

What a timely reminder @Jack McHammocklashing . I'm going too google drop off points in my area for gifts to Ukraine. What type of things did you include in your box please?

 

While I'm not for a single second defending Putin, I think we need to remember that this part of the article happened....

'Tensions between the Kremlin and the West increased after the overthrow of pro-Kremlin Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych in 2014, following months of street protests'

I remember that. I also remember that just before that, our media was portraying the Ukrainians in a very different light, with reports of widespread fascism and far right driven violence. Nobody cared when people were tearing up public property and throwing bricks at police in the streets while their elected leader was being forced to run for his life, because they guy they wanted to replace him with was pro EU.

I am very well aware that the media picks a perspective and zooms in on anything that supports that narrative. I have no doubt that the vast majority of Ukrainians just want a peaceful life and the media focused almost exclusively on the minority who did something newsworthy. Today, while a minority of Ukrainians are fighting in the east for independence from Ukraine in favour of Russia, the media focused almost exclusively on the regular people, and the Ukrainian soldiers, with little mention of Ukrainians fighting for Russia.

My point to all this is simply this. While Putin has absolutely zero justification for attacking Ukraine, he does have a point about the west choosing sides.

 

Wind up torch, couple of pairs of wooly socks, soap, toothbrush, large T shirt, Gloves type of things

 

Thank you.

 

Joe needs to send more of the Patriot missile systems to Volodymyr - I'm sure he will in time. Putin will not be happy - I'm not surprised - the Patriot can detect an aircraft which is 62 miles away and then knock it out of the sky when it gets to within 44 miles.

I thought that the Star Streak was good - the Patriot has just knocked it off the top spot IMHO.

 

I think the US sending a Patriot missile battery to Ukraine is a bad move. It is purely political.

The US is sending one missile battery. That means 8 launchers, each capable of firing 4 missiles. So 32 missiles in all. That's less than half the number of missiles Russia launches in a single wave.

What's more, if I understand correctly, these 8 launchers are all on one truck, so it's not like they can protect 8 areas, they can protect one. That's assume they perform better in Ukraine than they did in Kuwait against Saddam's skud missiles.

I'm fully in favour of us and allies supporting Ukraine, where that support gives a material benefit. But I think what we see here is at best a token gesture by our US friends, at worst a massive escalation, and an opportunity for Russia to capture and study more advanced NATO kit.

Putin can simply do the maths. If the patriot has 100% success rate, then he just needs to send an extra 32 missiles or drones to render that one battery ineffective, and you can bet he will do sadly.