Ukraine

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. Jocko

    Jocko Guided by my better half.

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    He died in a hotel in India and anyone who watches YouTube knows what Health and Safety is like there.

    [​IMG]
     
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    • pete

      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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      I see what you mean, no 'wide load' warning sign.
      Tut tut.:nonofinger:
       
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      • Clueless 1 v2

        Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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        A few weeks ago, Kherson was 'liberated' (the Russians withdrew to heavily fortified positions on the east bank of the river and western media called it a liberation). It was blatantly obvious what the Russian intention was at the time and even military analysts warned it was clearly a trap. Not that they needed to, given that Russia has a history of retreating east to lure an enemy in, then destroying everything they leave behind.

        Today it's in the news that Kherson is under heavy bombardment from Russian positions on the east side of the river.

        I don't think for one second that the Ukrainian top brass are idiots. They've consistently proven otherwise. I also get that it's not easy to evacuate an entire city. But I do wonder what is going on. There's no way any of this is a surprise for anyone. I hope the Ukrainian side never thought of using Kherson as something to further deplete Russian artillery supplies while they focus on disrupting Russian supply lines further north.
         
      • Loofah

        Loofah Admin Staff Member

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        Just a repeat showing that the Russian government are total scum
         
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        • clanless

          clanless Total Gardener

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          Putin goes on about peace negotiations - then he does this:

          Ukraine's military said 69 missiles were launched, with air defences intercepting 54 of them.

          Putin is going down and it seems that he is going to take Russia with him.





           
        • Loofah

          Loofah Admin Staff Member

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          Is he? Not seeing anything to suggest that
           
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          • Clueless 1 v2

            Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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            I'm starting to form the opinion that Putin is just a puppet. A frail old man clinging to power.

            I might be wrong. It's just the impression I'm starting to get.

            I think some of his closest aides are the more dangerous psychopaths. In particular, Sergei Lavrov, who seems to be completely detached from reality. And Putin's Chechen mate who decided to send his own kids to the front line, to prove themselves.

            Just one example of things that are influencing my perception. Sergei Lavrov has publicly dropped subtle and not so subtle hints several times about the use of nuclear weapons. Putin meanwhile has publicly recognised that nobody can win a nuclear war and it's against Russia's nuclear doctrine to use nukes unless the very existence of Russia is threatened.

            I should add, I'm not sticking up for Putin. He clearly authorised the Russian invasion of Ukraine and clearly knows what's going on and seems to be making no effort to stop it. It also doesn't make any difference in practical terms for now at least. I just hope nobody takes him out, because if Putin were removed, I think things would get a whole lot worse. I'm not sure Sergei or their Chechen psychopath friend will really care who else might get involved or how things might escalate.
             
          • clanless

            clanless Total Gardener

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            The Devil hsa many disguises. Can Putin stoop any lower...

            SEI_139458794-9678.jpg
             
          • clanless

            clanless Total Gardener

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            Agree entirely. He is in his 70's now and trying to make his mark on thw world before he heads downwards. He's certainly going to leave a remarkable legacy.
             
          • Clueless 1 v2

            Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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            Given that the Russian orthodox church endorsed the invasion, and given the track record of orthodox churches in general, I think Putin is right at home there.
             
          • Jocko

            Jocko Guided by my better half.

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            I think it is a bit rich that after saying Ukraine would not be holding a ceasefire Ukrainian officials are now accusing Russians of opening fire in several areas. Either there is a ceasefire or there isn't.
             
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            • clanless

              clanless Total Gardener

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              I see that Russia are claiming to have destroyed a couple of the new US supplied Bradley fighting vehicles in Ukraine. Problem is that Ukraine hasn't taken delivery of these already destroyed vehicles yet.

              Confirmed that UK will send Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine and that Poland will be send some Leopard 2 tanks - all in time for the Ukraine Spring offensive.

              Sanctions are now starting to bite - Putin using prisoners to make tanks - how's that going to go?

              Did you notice that in his last fake press conference - Putin was wearing a bullet proof vest under his suit jacket. Priceless...
               
            • Clueless 1 v2

              Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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              I saw yesterday that the media propaganda machine was already preparing the masses for the inevitable loss of Soledar and Bahkmut. They we're saying how there's no strategic value in defending them and how Russia will not gain a strategic advantage by capturing them.

              I can't help but think there's a lot more to this than meets the eye. Of course we as the masses only get a tiny fraction of the story, and that tiny fraction is heavily vetted and manipulated to suit a particular narrative. We know the ordinary Russian people are being grossly misled. I just wonder if we are too.
               
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              • clanless

                clanless Total Gardener

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                I reckon that it would be very difficult to pull the wool over peoples eyes today. There are so many different sources of news it would not be possible to control them all. Mind you Putin is trying his best.

                I tend to believe any news that is repeated by separate unrelated sources. News from Russia has zero credibility.

                There is more video coming out around Ukrainian soldiers murdered by Russian troops. I use the word murdered deliberately. Not for the faint hearted...but shows why sanctions must continue long term and why Western weapons must keep flowing into Ukraine. Putin must be stopped in Ukraine. He has designs on NATO countries that used to be part of the Soviet Union.
                 
              • Clueless 1 v2

                Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                A lot of the news outlets just report on what others have reported.

                I believe we have far better access to something near the truth than people inside Russia do, but I still don't believe we hear the full truth.

                For example, we know, because the media tells us so, that pretty much all Ukrainians want Ukraine to win. However the same news outlets in 2014 told us all about how a lot of Ukrainians in the east were pro Russian.

                I like DW news. It's a German channel but they present in English. They're still heavily biased but seem more honest than the mainstream.

                I watched a YouTube documentary a little while ago where a young amateur journalist went to eastern Ukraine and met all sorts of people. The message from that was not that all Russians are evil and all Ukrainians are good. It was more that most of them didn't really care whether they were Russian or Ukrainian, and didn't really want to fight what they saw as their fellow citizens. The pro Russian side were fighting for a world that is not almost entirely controlled by 'London and Washington', while the pro Ukrainian side were fighting for what they saw as freedom of choice, opportunity, and an end to Soviet era attitudes and control.
                 
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