Ukraine

I agree, probably more like conversion training to western types and systems.
But the government have denied that we will supply planes,so yeah, heard it all before.

 

Do they still train service people then make them redundant and put them on the reserve list for 20 yrs.

 

Russia has warned that the UK sending fighter jets to Ukraine would have military and political consequences for Europe and the rest of the world.

I have to agree with Russia here - the consequences would be kicking Russia out of Ukraine and Putin heading towards an open window.

Fighter jets will go to Ukraine, I have no doubt. We initially said that we wouldn't send tanks.

 

The US didn't ask for our help on 9/11 - it was the other NATO rep's who approached the US and said that they wanted to invoke Article 5. Canada was the first to do so. It only applies to attacks in Europe or North America - so the Falklands isn't covered.

I see that another 'retired' military official is saying that we don't have enough fighters to send to Ukraine - what a revelation....

The cash that Russia has tucked away in western banks - it will be used to re-build Ukraine and I would expect that the money will also be used to pay for replenishing weapons stocks - so we would get our kit back in the end.

Now is the time for NATO to throw in everything they have to defend Ukraine.

 

A chap I worked beside had just left the RAF where he was a Technician Engine Fitter. He told us that all they did, day in and day out, was take an engine out of one aircraft to put it into another as there weren't enough engines for the airframes. As soon as a serviceable aircraft needed avionics or airframe maintenance its engine was purloined for another.

 

I just looked it up.
All we have is 130 Typhoons and 21 f35s.


Do we have any to spare, bearing in mind how much these things cost.

36 to 136 million dollars for a Typhoon and 180 million dollars for an F35.


It was also pointed out that unless you are prepared to attack air defences inside Russia they would be sitting ducks, and an air war using western planes would have to creep into Russian territory.
Add to that any shot down would probably be taken apart by Russian intelligence for every detail of their complexity and capability.

 

Possible John, but I got the feeling Zelenski is after fighting machines rather than transports.

 

It would be interesting to know the state of the Ukrainian airforce and why neither Russia or Ukraine appear to have used air power to any large extent.

 

Our incompetent leaders are going to get a lot of people killed.

If we give fighter jets to Ukraine, we have to go the whole way and admit that we are at war with Russia. Russian nuclear doctrine then kicks in, whereby Russia will use it's nukes. For anyone thinking bring it on, we have no effective defence against nukes, but Rishi and his mates don't need to worry about that, because they'll all be in hiding somewhere safe. It's the civilians and military that will pay the ultimate price.

I'm all for supporting Ukraine, but giving them the means to attack deep inside Russia is not supporting them in their efforts to repel an invading force, anyone with eyes can see it's a massive escalation that will lead to Russia coming under sustained attacked from western planes carrying western ammo piloted by pilots that were trained in the west and acting on western intelligence. If that's not playing right into Putin's hands, then I don't know what is. He's already telling his people that the west is attacking Russia. Sounds like we're about to prove him right.

 

I agree entirely. I'm not hoping we back down. I just don't think we're handling it right.

We're not standing up to Putin at all. We're just helping the Ukrainians on one hand while saying 'nought to do with me mate' on the other. Putin doesn't see us as a credible force, more of an annoyance. I actually don't think our government really wants Ukraine to win. I think they just want Russia to run out of ammo and money and so will give Ukraine just enough to mount a credible resistance, and the odd token battlefield gain. Russia becomes less of a concern, and Ukraine becomes more closely aligned to the west, which is not only useful strategically, but also economically, given that we depend on Ukraine for a very significant chunk of our food supplies.

 

Given we don't have enough aircraft to kit out our shiney new aircraft carriers (Prince of Wales is currently laid up undergoing repairs for a damaged prop shaft).
It would make more sense for the Americans to send over some A10 "Warthogs", purpose designed for ground attack and destroying armoured vehicles; also they are designed for improvised landing strips, field maintenance and are as tough as old boots.

 

A10s and f16s.Probably cheaper as well.

I dont think we have enough of anything.

I still think there would be a problem as, in all recent wars they have gone for air superiority which would be very difficult without taking out missiles on Russian soil.

Not sure what state the Russian airforce is in either.