Ukraine

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by clanless, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. Loofah

    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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    What possible good do you expect of NATO gobbing off to a psychotic despot?
     
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    • clanless

      clanless Total Gardener

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      End of the year, Putin will run out of money.

      Russian inflation is soaring at extreme levels thanks to a steep slide in the ruble's exchange rate, according to Steve Hanke.

      The economist estimated Russia's current annual inflation at 60%, almost 17 times the level reported by the central bank.

      "The ruble's FREE-FALL is fueling RAGING INFLATION in Russia," the Johns Hopkins professor said.
       
    • Clueless 1 v2

      Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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      '.

      You're right. And that's the problem. My perception of NATO is based on me being a civilian who's seen the news. That's all. And the perception I've formed is this.

      NATO is basically the US with a few small buddies that tag along. The last major conflict I'm aware of that NATO was engaged in was Afghanistan, where after 20 years of trying to suppress a bunch of maniacs, who didn't have a fraction of the equipment NATO has, the Americans lost interest and walked away, abandoning their allies in the process, who in turn had to give up once the Americans took their ball home.

      They were also active in Syria, where the Russians were on the opposing side. I believe Assad is still in power today.

      I see news of aircraft carriers with no aircraft to carry, and internal disputes and funding issues in the UK and similar issues in our European allies, and I see news of half of Americans wanting to pull out of NATO because they feel the other members aren't contributing enough. Germany has been in the news in recent times for a few reasons. One article was a few years ago, when their air force was assessed to have a grand total of nine airworthy Tornados, and a bit more recently when their contribution to a coalition mission was a grand total of two soldiers in a purely observer role, just so they could say Germany was there.

      I might be way off the mark. But this is my perception based on media reports. If this is my perception, why would Putin feel NATO is anything more than a mild inconvenience?
       
    • Loofah

      Loofah Admin Staff Member

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      Because it makes a good soundbite to terrify the populace
       
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      • clanless

        clanless Total Gardener

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        It looks like the military spending situation in Germany has since done a 180.

        Putin has given NATO a good kick up the backside - every member now realises how important NATO is as a defensive alliance and how important it is to be part of that alliance. There is no way that Sweden and Finland would have even considered glancing in the general direction of NATO were it not for Putin.
         
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        • Clueless 1 v2

          Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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          Finland, and hopefully soon Sweden, have a lot to offer to NATO. People often didn't give them a second thought, but from what I can gather, they both have very credible military capabilities.
           
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          • clanless

            clanless Total Gardener

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            Seismic story from the BBC - shocking revelations - Russia are making it difficult for Ukraine to advance through their heavily fortified lines - who would have thought?

            Come on BBC - that's like reporting that grass is green. I sometime wonder why I pay the licence fee.

            The general in charge of Ukraine's stuttering counter-offensive in the south has said Russian defences are making it difficult for military equipment, including Western tanks and armoured vehicles, to move forward.
             
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            • Clueless 1 v2

              Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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              News reports at the moment are all over the place. One report I read earlier gave a detailed plan of Ukrainian intentions, including proposed path, timeline, force size, equipment and ultimate objective. The same article finished with a line to the effect of, of course this could just be a feint to mislead Russia.

              We saw it last year in the Kherson/ Kharkiv situation.

              It's a good strategy. I believe it's termed misinformation.

              We won't know anything about what's really happening at the front until sometime after its happened. In the meantime, many news reports I think are intended more for a Russian intelligence audience than anyone else.
               
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              • clanless

                clanless Total Gardener

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                Ukrainian fencer Olga Kharlan has been disqualified for refusing to shake hands with Russian Anna Smirnova at the World Fencing Championships.

                Paris olympics 2024. The war will be over by the time it takes place. Well done Olga, standing firmly by your principles.
                 
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                • Clueless 1 v2

                  Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                  It saddens me that sports people can't separate war from sport.

                  Do we know that the Russian supports the war?

                  Sport and war should be completely separate from eachother. Even during the great war, Brits and Germans managed to stop fighting long enough to have a game of football in no man's land.

                  I was always taught that it takes the bigger person to put differences aside at certain times. If the Russian had publicly showed support for Putin's war, then I could understand, but if not, then I think it's best to consider how gestures, or lack thereof, influence perceptions. If a Russian person, with no interest in war, is shown respect by a Ukrainian, then the Russian might think to themselves, these people aren't so evil. If the Ukrainian shuns the Russian, the Russian might be inclined to think, maybe what I was told was right, the Ukrainians really are quite hostile.
                   
                • Loofah

                  Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                  I doubt it was personal. She has a global stage to make a point so she has made use of it.
                   
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                  • Clueless 1 v2

                    Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                    I agree. But what better opportunity to show the world, including presumably audiences in Russia, that the Ukrainians are not the evil fascists Putin wants people to believe they are?
                     
                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    I dont think you can separate sport from war.
                    If you lost family or knew someone who had been killed I dont think I would be shaking hands with the opposite side.
                     
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                    • clanless

                      clanless Total Gardener

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                      Apparently in fencing - there are rules that require either a hand shake or the offer of a rapier to cross - at the end of the match. Olga offered the rapier and was disqualified - there's something fishy going on here.

                      IMHO objections to the war must be made on all possible public platforms - it must be kept at the forefront of peoples minds.

                      Interesting that 38 out of 50 odd African leaders gave Putin the cold shoulder - they didn't turn up - to a recent Russian led economic forum. The world can see how this is going to end and they want to be on the winning side.
                       
                    • Clueless 1 v2

                      Clueless 1 v2 Total Gardener

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                      I agree 100% there. But wasn't the Russian registered as neutral, ie not representing their nation?

                      When Tony Bliar and George Bush launched their unjustified invasion of Iraq, should all is civilians have been treated by Iraqis in the UK as enemies?

                      If we start judging people by their nationality alone, irrespective of their personal beliefs and morals, then we're basically the same as Putin.
                       
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