Who believes Trump?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by ThePlantAssassin, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. shiney

    shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree with this. :blue thumb:

    I think we're in danger of misinterpreting what people are actually saying, or intending, for what we think they are saying. This is how arguments start and we don't really want to get into that.

    Peace to all. :grphg:
     
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    • shiney

      shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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      You're Going To Miss Me When I'm Gone

       
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      • shiney

        shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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        Hit The Road Trump

         
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        • SimonZ

          SimonZ Gardener

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          Ok, I'll stick to the facts of what was actually said. Holding views regarding immigration and wanting to address its effects, even to reduce it, is a normal and natural part of our political debate, or should be. But when people start coming out with stuff about whether "these people" are "taking over" and how this is eroding our culture, I find it creepy. Maybe you don't, but maybe you have only ever seen these things expressed over a screen, and maybe the sentiments have never been addressed to you or your family in the past.
           
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          • ARMANDII

            ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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          • shiney

            shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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            Totally incorrect and just an assumption. This is why I suggested we don't try and read things people write in a way it wasn't intended. I know you said 'maybe' but your statement still implies criticism.

            This is why I said earlier on that I try not to be involved in these discussions.

            I certainly agree with you on that point. :blue thumb:
             
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            • SimonZ

              SimonZ Gardener

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              The word used was "immigration." Not "aspects of..." or anything else. There was a focus on "black and ethnic" school children to illustrate the point, and the suggestion that anyone who doesn't see "what's going in" is blind. It was suggested that "these people" are engaged in a "take over," and that British culture has been destroyed. I'm sorry, I've heard all this stuff too many times. I know what it is.
               
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              • Nikolaos

                Nikolaos Total Gardener

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                Nah sorry, you're just incorrect here. I can understand why you're vigilant and hypersensitive about this sort of thing, but you're targeting the wrong man here and reading all sorts of meaning into a poorly-worded forum post from one of the good guys. Don't make enemies of people who are certainly likely to be allies in what you/we oppose. As I mentioned, I'm an ethnic minority myself. Please let this drop for your own sanity as well as the group's. I have opposed, debated and refuted extremists on the Far-Right for many, many years, and can assure you that none of them regularly contribute to this forum. :) I have actually wretched over my toilet bowl after hearing some of their repulsive statements once the mask slips. They become extremely easy to identify after a while. They are devious and sick people who cloak their bigotry very well, due to them having had many years of practice, my friend. You've already made an erroneous assumption about a member of this forum who is also a minority. Please consider it possible that you may be very mistaken on this occasion.

                Nick
                 
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                  Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
                • shiney

                  shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                  Extremely well said :yay: Thank you @Nikolaos :blue thumb:

                  I think I shall leave this thread as I don't wish to be offended by any more wrong assumptions. :noidea: I found the last one rather hurtful. :sad:

                  People who can't admit mistakes are not ones that I wish to debate with.
                   
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                  • pete

                    pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                    The subject of immigration will never be addressed all the time people throw their hands in the air with horror as soon as the subject is spoken about.
                    It's never discussed properly and it's almost like if we don't talk about it ,it will go away.
                    You can't change people's thinking by gagging them.
                    Only a sensible honest discussion can do that.

                    I'm not referring to here on GC I'm talking about in much higher places.
                     
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                    • HarryS

                      HarryS Eternally Optimistic Gardener

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                      Superb, how do they produce these memes so quickly.
                       
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                      • Fat Controller

                        Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                        I think this is part of the problem that swirl around many of todays issues - you have those on the far left and those who are on the far right who are both thankfully in the minority; the sad truth is, however, that both of those minorities are very vocal (the left, particularly so) and draw the most attention, whereas the rest of us who are spread across the middle never have our voices heard.

                        Worse still, dare to voice an opinion that someone from either camp disagrees with and you are then subjected to having obscenities screamed at you. If you dare to say to someone on the right that you are friends with people who are black or muslim, you are a traitor and scum. Dare to try to discuss with someone from the left the fact that you believe too many people are coming into the country without controls, and you are racist scum.

                        More recently, particularly following the Brexit vote, the use of the terms racist/xenophobic/Nazi/fascist have been thrown around like sweeties, meanwhile Mr & Mrs Smith are watching statues being hauled down and the history of their country 'reviewed' because it may have racist undertones and they are even being called Nazi's themselves by MP's on national TV. This is the same Mr & Mrs Smith who have co-existed alongside Sikh, Hindu, Jewish, Jamaican, Japanese, Chinese... (you get the drift) neighbours and friends for years - decades even. They have welcomed people from all backgrounds into their lives, and most likely even their homes, but now they are being labeled as Nazi or racist for the pleasure.

                        Take a look at that picture, and see why folk are beyond fed up of what they are seeing happening to their country, their home, and all the while they cannot have reasoned debate about the pros and cons of the situation.
                         
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                        • Fat Controller

                          Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                          EmY5qAnWMAEo_CS.jpg
                           
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                          • Scrungee

                            Scrungee Well known for it

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                            Why does every forum thread/online newspaper comments section/etc. about Trump descend into an arguement?

                            All I'll say about is that I'm proud my father fought the Blackshirts in London during the 1930's and I'm also proud he got chucked out the Young Communist League for being a troublemaker.
                             
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                              Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
                            • shiney

                              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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                              Then he must have known my father :heehee:
                               
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