Who believes Trump?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by ThePlantAssassin, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. SimonZ

    SimonZ Gardener

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    Oh come on now, you know yourself that is not acceptable - to state accusations of illegality or "bungs", or stir up rumours of dodgy goings on for political purposes, but offer no sources. You have specifically alleged that two individuals have given back-handers to a website, but not provided proof. I've done a bit of searching but can't find anything. If it exists and you have a proven, trusted source, what are you afraid of? It would take thirty seconds to find it, copy and paste, and share. I'm sick of people spraying round rumours about things like this on the internet and then, when asked for evidence, saying enigmatic things like "its out there," or "search for it yourself." No - you made an allegation, so the burden of proof is on you. A "bung" is an illegal and clandestine donation made as a bribe, to make someone do something you want them to do.So please provide the proof these people did so, or withdraw the allegation.
     
  2. ARMANDII

    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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    • Cuttings

      Cuttings Super Gardener

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      Whilst I agree with Armandii's post I will leave it at this, a quick sesrch is not going to reveal all you want, to claim my arguement weak, because a website you use says so (a website who's owners have 2 pending legal cases against it). What you seek is not just copy and paste a link, the information is on several websites, type in lolita express and there will be a plethera of press TV, and court minutes with regards to Bill and his shenanaghens, then use the relevant sesrches for injunctions made against US media outlets 2016, because I feel, jo matter what link I posted, you will only read what you want to read. Sorry folks for another post on this.
       
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      • Cuttings

        Cuttings Super Gardener

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        I will save you some time, the injunction failed, but the media group who the injunction was intended, never published the story, why?

        Edit:
        NPR Choice page
         
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          Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
        • WeeTam

          WeeTam Total Gardener

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          More and more people seem to be coming forward with tales of shananigans in the postal voting .

          Of course its being ignored by mainstream media but can be found from other news sources.

          Nothing will come of it because the "system" wanted him out. And postal voting will be defended till deathe as it can be very easily controlled and abused. As was seen in a UK election recently but was hushed up too.

          My crystal ball says Agent Orange gets dragged out the White House in January anyway, Biden is President for a short time till illness forces him to step aside and the VP Harris steps up to the plate. :stirpot:
           
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          • SimonZ

            SimonZ Gardener

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            No, that isn't true. If you post the evidence of what you have claimed then of course I will agree, I'd have no option. I'm more than ready to be contradicted at any point and have always conceded to factual evidence. I'm not a confirmation-bias addict and respect that all manner of people are capable of good or bad. I even posted earlier in defence of some of Donald Trump's policies, and believe me I am no Trump supporter. I did google a bit after reading what you wrote, but you must understand people are forever posting accusations and allegations online, if we researched all of them we would never finish - I strongly believe the burden of proof is on the person doing the accusing, otherwise I may as well just believe every rumour I hear. You alleged that criminal offences had taken place but refuse to provide the evidence. Unless you do so, and as I've seen no proof from other sources, I don't believe it. I don't think this is unreasonable, in fact it seems totally logical to me and I can't see the problem with it. I'm sure you wouldn't just believe stuff I told you without knowing me at face value, if it concerned corruption and criminality.
             
          • SimonZ

            SimonZ Gardener

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            I'm sorry if anyone finds the discussion, or anything else I've written, to be boring. I often come across stuff that I find dull, but what I usually do in those cases is just scroll on, and find something I'm interested in, rather than posting sarcastic memes. I didn't insist that anyone read what I'd written, and presumably anyone doing so was only reading it because whether they agreed or disagreed, they found it interesting.
             
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            • SimonZ

              SimonZ Gardener

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              [QUOTE="WeeTam, post: 1287930, member: 15846"Biden is President for a short time till illness forces him to step aside and the VP Harris steps up to the plate. :stirpot:[/QUOTE]

              She will make a decent President imho.
               
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              • ARMANDII

                ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                That's not the problem, Simon.:dunno:
                What is essential in a discussion is an ability to put your points across with facts and reason and, if either can't do that because of either side can't recognise the validity of those facts, then you have reached an impasse.
                Knowing when you've reached that impasse is vital in any discussion or the discussion just becomes bogged down with reiterations and wanderings from the main path thereby become lengthy which can be the death knell of any discussion. Other members do observe discussions and have their own opinions but can choose not to join in, but interest is lost when the discussions deteriorates into a wrangle.:dunno::doh:
                 
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                • SimonZ

                  SimonZ Gardener

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                  All I ever asked was that evidence was provided for claims. Presumably you'd rather this site was not a place for scurrilous gossip. And I have an old-fashioned view that the burden of proof is on the one making a claim. Given the certainty with which the claims were stated, their nature, and the fact someone was making them in order to rubbish a point I as making (with evidence) I thought I had perfectly good reason to ask for the proof. The discussion hadn't really gone on that long to be honest, it was only a few posts between us. But okay, since that person has refused to provide it I will assume no such evidence exists and therefore the claims were bogus, and they either made them dishonestly, or by genuine error - hopefully it was the latter.
                   
                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller 'Cuddly' Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  She will make a decent President imho.[/QUOTE]

                  She wouldn't have been elected to be so, however.

                  The real issue I have with all of this is that people are happy with there being various allegations of impropriety taking place in one of the biggest elections in the world. The lack of security around voting, even in this country, is quite shocking in the modern age to be blunt and it is clearly being exploited time and time again. Postal voting in particular is a wide open door that needs to be closed.

                  For the avoidance of doubt, I am going to put this into really simple terms - Trump is a prick of the highest order, Biden is equally a prick of the highest order, I do not like either of them, nor does that matter as I have no right to vote in that election. What does deeply bother me is the allegations being made, often with evidence that simply gets dismissed out of hand, and the simple fact that the foundations of any democratic process is that it is honest and the result is beyond questionable doubt. There were behaviours that took place during this election that should concern ALL of us, regardless of our political leanings - if there is no honesty in democracy, you are in a dictatorship.
                   
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                  • ARMANDII

                    ARMANDII Low Flying Administrator Staff Member

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                    The above defines the situation, yet again, where you are merely reiterating your previous sentences and thoughts, and going around in an intellectual circle, because you feel outraged that the opposing thoughts don't agree with yours.


                    That last sentence infers. without proper evidence, indirectly that the person giving the opposing thoughts is being dishonest. That, in itself, is a breach of GC Rules and Protocols, (which I hope you have read), while your actual attitude in the discussion seems to have become more and more aggressive, turning into a verbal One way Street ignoring the fact that you are/were in a Two Way street discussion.
                    Strong beliefs, political passions, use of aggressive demands to strengthen your argument, and an inability to recognise that you have reached infertile ground in a discussion is attracting criticism that only undermines your position. I would therefore ask that you end the discussion and withdraw gracefully from the Thread.
                     
                  • Loofah

                    Loofah Admin Staff Member

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                    OK I haven't read the whole thread but in answer to the title question - not me. I can't understand how he got in office in the first place, how he stayed there, nor how he is not being forcibly removed as it is blatant how he is structuring the offices of power to enact whatever he sees fit to stay in the big chair. I think the situation is horrendously dangerous at this juncture and this weekend there is to be some form of rally with gun totin' 'muricans all at logger heards to one another. I'm dismayed at politics. Everywhere.
                     
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                    • pete

                      pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                      Well it's all got far too technical for me, I do know when I'm out of my depth.
                      :biggrin:
                       
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                      • WeeTam

                        WeeTam Total Gardener

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                        More and more allegations of voter fraud appearing now. Recounts ordered etc.
                        Washington Post says one guy retracts his allegation of postal fraud then the guy pops up saying he never retracted his allegation.
                        The mainstream press and mainstream socialmedia companies seem to be acting very strangely atm.

                        It aint over yet,hope it does end soon so 2021 can be a better year than 2020.:rolleyespink:
                         
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