Who's eating my honeysuckle?

Fran, I do agree, these pests thrive below soil level where they can't be seen and sometimes artificial growing methods call for artificial solutions. Nematodes are expensive and being attacked by a nematode sounds horrific to me, whereas one drench of the lethal Provado carefully applied will work .
It's persistence in the soil is worrying though and for the time being I have resorted to half uprooting any vulnerable container plants and manually removing any grubs. The birds then have a feast. You could say this is also a gruesome death, but at least it is quick and has no effect on any other wildlife.

 

Lots of issues arising here, methinks

1...Know your enemy - it's always useful if you can identify the culprits before mass exterminating everything. OK - so you spray or drench the holed leaves, but supposing the varmints are long gone. What then are you actually spraying?

2...Sure - container grown plants are in an artificial growing environment and so you cannot rely on predators that are in healthy garden soils. Vine weevil grubs are particuarly damaging and safe in your pots, they cannot be got at by nematodes, birds or beetles. Does drenchng with poison work? OK if it does, but is it not better to prevent the little horrors from getting into your pots in the first place? The adults cannot fly so they have to crawl up your pots or enter the drainage holes. Then they lay their eggs and suddenly, one fine day, your prize potted plant keels over - dead and rootless. Think about barriers - grease bands, gels, water traps

3...I'm not squeamish about killing pests - (got a neighbour that I'd love to terminate) The point is - is chemical warfare effective? What exactly are the ingredients of that bug killer? How are they manufactured and how much land and water is poisoned in the process? Massive carbon emmisions too just as for the production of chemical fertilisers? Where do the chemical potions come from and where do they go to? How long do they remain active - 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 6 months or a year? Farmers poison their land, ditches, ponds and rivers. Where does your land drain to? Collectively - non organic gardeners can do almost as much enviromental damage as chemical farmers. Is it worth it for a quick, short term fix? :(

4.... One of the joys of chemical free organic gardening comes from understanding the life cycles of friendly and hostile insects and other pests. Then comes the challenge of outwitting them and harnessing your insect, amphibian, reptile, bird and mammal allies.

Here endeth the lesson

 

me thinks all down and start again. :D

 

DAG, your horseradish is being eaten by two different things I reckon. the top of the leaf damage looks like caterpillar, the 'shotblasted' middle looks like classic flea beetle damage. These evil little b*stards chomp through any member of the cruciferae with gay abandon as far as I can see, with a particular affinity for watercress and Crambe in one of my gardens. The pestilent little things are remarkably difficult to control (though I haven't tried provado on them for very specific toxicity reasons to do with site). I have been told that they don't like shade, and since horseradish does like it I would plant your prize somewhere in a rank and forgotten corner of the garden in part shade (which it will LOVE), and the flea beetles will go and find some other treasure to decimate instead. As for the caterpillar, well I'd take him off by hand, or just let him be. No need for Provado on your horseradish!

 

Thanks Jazid, much obliged, will do that!

 

Sorry HB and Liz - I have plants from Atlanta and Florida, that I have overwintered for years in the greenhouse. Have tried upending them autumn and spring, nematodes, and banding - provado is the only thing that seems to stop the grubs - and as its only applied to the compost, when they go into the greenhouse, I doubt that it will do anything else any harm.

Sorry but whilst I keep chemical use to the absolute minimum - I will continue to use them when needs must, and carefully.

 

I had similar damage on my Brugmansias no evidence of caterpillars scrutinised with a magnifying glass couldn't see anything went out after midnight and found snails helping themseves picked them off and gave them the drop test now its a regular job before retiring I think i'm winning

 

You have made my point, Walnut. Pointless to spray snail damage with an insecticide. Gardeners need to identify the cause of the damage before reaching for the spray gun. I knew a guy who surrounded his yellow crocuses with slug pellets until I told him that the damage was being done by sparrows!

 

Glad you said that, Walnut, as my white Brugmansia has more holes in it than leaf structure ... the pink one next to it doesn't seem as vulnerable. The white one hasn't flowered at all this year and the pink one is on its second flush with twice as many blooms as the first, only suffering not-so-nice looking lower leaves.



I'll start examining the leaves at night. We only have tiny white shell snails about 1cm across so I may need the magnifying glass!

 

That was the problem with my pests - couldn't identify them. Searched for slugs, snails, caterpillars - no sign of anything. Apart from the damage of course. I prefer not to use sprays, and believe me, I've done my share of relocating snails in the past!! However like Fran, if all else fails then it's the bug gun for me.

 

Farmers poison their land, ditches, ponds and rivers. Where does your land drain to? Collectively - non organic gardeners can do almost as much enviromental damage as chemical farmers. Is it worth it for a quick, short term fix?

Hornbeam, firstly let me say that I am a farmers son and that I take exception to your above comment. That said you are fully entitled to hold whatever opinion you like, its a free world.
All farmers are not the chemical spraying devils that you seem to make them out to be. The cost alone of the chemicals makes sure that they are not applied more often than they have to be . All produce is tested by the companies that buy them before they are packed and sent to the supermarket shelves. Do you think that Tesco etc would set themselves up for a law suit where a child could be poisoned by the food that they have sold?
My father is a Dairy Farmer . He is milking around 70 cows.His price for a litre of milk this year is 17 pence per litre.Next time you are in the shop check the price of a two litre jug of milk -it is about 98 pence where I live. 17 + 17 = 34 pence the dairies have64 pence to cover the processing and haulage of the milk, and they say that they are getting it tight.
Now let me ask you and every body else -could -not would you afford to pay twice or three times what you allready pay for your food.Please dont quote the organic arguement as the high prices dont exist as the organic market is saturated already( evidence -Sainsburys offer on organic pizzas, mushrooms and wine , they dont give it away if they think that they can make money on it).If you want to farm without chemicals are you prepared to import more food from overseas where there are little or no records kept of what has been applied to the food as it has been grown and processed and noone knows what has been sprayed or fed to it.
Many people may not realise it but the British Farmer is the most upto date, forward thinking in the world and one of the most regulated .Some day they will be so tied up in red tape that they will pack it in. Then this country will not be able to feed itsself and have to rely on imported food of unknown origin .We will look pretty stupid when that day comes .So get out and meet your local farmers , get to know them they will be suspicious at first, they only seem to meet the more extreem members of society stealing their tools, or wrecking their crops because of narrow minded thinking or the animall rights groups. Stick at it and you will find that farmers want to be as friendly to the enviroment as you or any one else .You will find eventually that farmers only want to provide top quality food for a nation that will only buy the cheapest on offer in the supermarkets.Plenty of people talk the talk about wanting to eat healthly but wont pay a little more for localy produced food that hasnt been shipped half way round the world.
Some day people you are going to have to choose and that day is coming sooner than many think.

 

Beefy - I agree with you entirely about supermarket price fixing and the red tape. Perhaps they both contribute to the very high suicide rate of farmers. I certainly don't label all farmers as land poisoners and believe that dairy farmers are much less likely to do so. I live on the edge of East Anglia's agro-prairies. The land is sick and the ditches, ponds and rivers are even sicker. Thick green slime from fertiliser run off and lifeless soil devoid of worms. Bet the soil which supports the rich grass that your herds enjoy is full of worms. Personally, I only eat organic food because the inorganic stuff tastes of nothing at all - and I believe that it is toxic.

 

:eek: :eek: Off topic HB alert!! :D

 

Well, seeing as I started the topic, I'd like to say thank you...I've made my choices from the varied responses. It's good to hear from both sides of the fence.

Hoping to send you pics next summer of a beautiful honeysuckle, lush with leaves, and smelling divine!

Thanks to all.

 

No problem Hornbeam. Im glad that we can both express our own particular points of view and can see were each other is coming from .Thats what forums are for.I dont intend to turn this into a slanging match so no one has any need to get nervous. Sorry for hijacking your thread Sheppy nothing personal but when I want to say something I come on out and say it.