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YOU and todays 'Climate change'.

Discussion in 'General Gardening Discussion' started by Mike Allen, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. CanadianLori

    CanadianLori Total Gardener

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    Canada has been called out by the UN as not reducing our carbon footprint enough. But they are basing their measures using various studies that had obvious mistakes such as converting 80f to read 80c and then doing their mathematical conjugations. ...hmmm, and these are scientists?

    We have 40 million people in this huge country, many many forests and wetlands, national parks larger than the city of Londion and I would have thought the very fact that we have so much air cleaning vegetation that it would somehow offset the damage we do by heating our homes when it is -20f outside.

    Our province is stopping emissions tests on passenger vehicles because these vehicles have improved so much over the years that it is silly to keep testing them every two years and getting the same answer. Instead, the province is going to start clamping down on commercial vehicles and hopefully manufacturers will read the writting on the wall and make the big trucks more fuel efficient and less polluting too.

    I get disgusted with this finger pointing when I think about China, India, pretty much all of Africa and the U.S. who seem to do nothing to stop polluting.

    I do my best to keep my footprint light. Because I live in a house, I do have some choices. Those in apartments or nursing homes, etc don't have any options regarding heating or power. So this nonsense of expecting everyone to be able to be able to reduce is silly.

    I am a big advocate of nuclear power. If done properly, such as our Candu reactors, they are safe and produce no emissions . You can bet that Japanese reactor was not a Candu!
     
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    • Fat Controller

      Fat Controller Cuddly Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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      I think everyone forgets just what caused the problems at Fukushima - - the earthquake itself was simply massive, bigger than anyone could have anticipated and bigger than had ever been seen. The resulting tsunami was also bigger than had ever been seen or could have been predicted, and it was that, that overwhelmed the plant and the rest is history. If that power station had been built inland, it would almost certainly have survived in my view. Let's also not forget, if it wasn't a power station, but instead some large chemical industry - many more would potentially have been killed.

      Finally, in absolute fairness to the Japanese people, they have worked hard on cleaning the mess up - sure, some of their efforts are not working or are not up to scratch, but at least they are trying, and I will no doubt get help.
       
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      • Zigs

        Zigs Ginger Admin Staff Member

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        I'd like to point out that atmospheric CO2 has been far higher in the past and we didn't have runaway greenhouse effect that some folk seem to think will be the end of the earth :doh:

        CO2 at the moment is about 400 ppm, in the Jurassic it was 2,500 ppm.

        There were no ice sheets back then but the planet bounced back as the plants loved the extra carbon in the atmosphere and went apeshit and absorbed the extra co2 :spinning:
         
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        • shiney

          shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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          Dinosaur emissions! :hate-shocked:
           
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          • CanadianLori

            CanadianLori Total Gardener

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            How does one enunciate Fukushima? The two Ronnies would have fun with that one... :whistle:
             
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            • shiney

              shiney President, Grumpy Old Men's Club Staff Member

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              Not the way you think! :snorky:
               
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              • Mike Allen

                Mike Allen Gardener

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                First and foremost I'd like to thank you all for joing this debate. If I may. I notice that much has bee mentioned relating to the natural changes our planet has gone through in the past. There's no denying some have been very serious but IMO what we and our planet are now faced with is even greater. Things that are not part of any kind of natural development or as some might say, evolutionary changes.

                Yes we probably each hold our own view of scientist, that they will often overlook perhaps whats staring them in the face so as to come up with some new fangled idea. Thanks to modern means of study and learning. We are now more educated regarding what and how our planet is made and works. It really is so awinspiring, more often than not some natural change takes place and is seen that perhaps this proves beneficial. We have so much knowlege and information of a good practical and beneficial and life sustaining nature. All of this must make us proud to be alive and to be able to live happy and enjoy the fruits of the earth. In reality much of todays life is the complete opposite. We see folk living longer, but with what quality of life. This aspect has drawn attention as in some areas, this is costing too much financially. Now we have even children being obese etc etc. Overcrowding. At present there are between seven and eight billion people on the planet. I recall over fifty years ago that a population of eight billion people could stand on the island of Mauritous and have two feet of space all around them. OK! if you want to stand around like a penguin...smile.

                The worlds ice caps are rapidly melting, causing sea levels to rise. No getting away from it. Due to greenhouse heating effects. Cause of problem identified. What has been done. Zilch. I'm alright Jack. Matter of feed humankind. More and more has gone into increasing food crops. Methods have been devised to correct this, often ending in more problems being produced. Has this benefitted mankind. NO. A large portion of the world's population still go to bed wit empty rumbling tummies. Land-fill sites still become filled to overflowing amounts of good food. Now to perhaps one of the greatest nightmares. Jolly good old last forever plastic.

                Just imagine a Gene suddenly escapes from the bottle and suddenly every bit of pastic in the worlds oceans, suddenly become heaped up on dry land. Now what? Theres nowhere left to bury it, health and safety and all that. Can't burn it, the gases let off would suffocate all of mankind. ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
                 
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                • Jiffy

                  Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                • Fat Controller

                  Fat Controller Cuddly Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                  Capitalism has played a massive part in all this, and whilst it is clearly not all bad, there have been decisions made that have had resounding effects for decades thereafter. Housing continues to be one of my big bugbears, and if we still had significant council housing stocks in this country, not only would housing our vulnerable people be cheaper, but we would also have control as to how those buildings were constructed and maintained (LED lighting, insulation etc).

                  Whilst I am not convinced at all that the ice caps are melting because of human activity and CO2 levels (I believe those changes are simply part of earth's cyclic behaviour), there are a number of issues that are not being dealt with, and should be being dealt with by our respective governments.

                  Plastic is without doubt one of the saviours of the modern world, and yet it is also a scourge. Truthfully, it is not plastic that is the problem, it is the way that it is being misused and mishandled. A considerable amount of plastic is recyclable, providing of course that the facilities are in place to do so. If they are not, then it begs the question why not, as we have paid our government to ensure that services like this are in place. For plastics that are not recyclable, that raises two questions - firstly, why are they being used? Fair enough if there is absolutely no other choice, but in most cases that will be unlikely. Secondly, why are they then not being used as a fuel for power stations, similar to Jiffy's example?

                  Our governments should be putting pressure on companies, or even legislation if necessary, to force them to use recyclable plastics or other materials (paper, cardboard etc), or to use minimal packaging at all times. Our councils/governments should also be banned from shipping waste overseas to be 'recycled', as clearly that is not happening and invariably it is being dumped all over the place and ending up in the waterways and seas.

                  We as consumers are also partly responsible - when I started as an apprentice, a 21" colour TV with a stand and a remote control cost (roughly) £400; if you wanted Teletext, that would be £450. For that price, we would deliver and install it, and then look after it for at least a year or two. Once out of guarantee, in the event it broke down, someone like me would be sent out to wave a soldering iron at it and make it work again - and most people kept at TV for about 8 to 10 years. Now, that same £400 will get you a 50" flat panel 4K HDR Smart TV, that has more features than you can shake a stick at. It might even include delivery to your door, but you install it yourself. When it breaks down at four years old, would you try and get it repaired? Who would you call? Is it worth spending £100 on parts and labour to fix it? Most will simply scrap it and buy the next one. BUT, if manufacturers simply did not make these products at those prices, then nobody would be able to buy them.

                  And then there is food - we have recently been getting Morrisons Wonky Veg - and for the vast majority of it, I am yet to work out why it is wonky. We have had some really lovely veg from them, and are hopefully doing a wee bit to support farmers and the environment in the process. Our governments should be forcing supermarkets to sell produce of all shapes and sizes, and to negate waste. In the event that there is 'waste', they should be forced to give it out to, or even set up, food banks or soup kitchens where the food is free to those in need. Only once those avenues have been exhausted should food then be disposed of, and then it should go to make compost and/or be used to make fuel to power homes, hospitals and schools (biodigestion etc).

                  We all pay handsomely in taxes, and as far as I am concerned those taxes now go more to making select people richer rather than providing the services that they are supposed to provide; it is high time that our government stopped penalising us as consumers, and started doing what they should be doing which is working for our benefit - - he who pays the piper, names the tune?
                   
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                  • Marley Farley

                    Marley Farley Affable Admin! Staff Member

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                    We are all dreading the new Gloucester incinerator coming into action next year @Jiffy .. Seems if we cannot pollute and poison the sea much more we have to start on the air we all breath..!

                    My daughter grew up with Dr.Zeuss books and this it the one that had the most impact with her when it came out and she has never forgotten.. Now although a children’s book Zeus’s hit the nail on the head about this back in 1971....!

                    This is now the latest in our local struggle....
                    Gloucestershire is building a big bonfire of waste. To last for eternity
                     
                  • Jiffy

                    Jiffy The Match is on Fire

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                    Will the fall out fall into the Sharpness to Gloucetser canel which is where some of Bristols water comes from :mute: then there' the wildlife at slimbridge


                    What about all them rockets that keep flying up through the atmosphere, what damage is them doing, i know one thing they MPH is a lot more than my car :snorky:
                     
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                    • Marley Farley

                      Marley Farley Affable Admin! Staff Member

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                      Probably @Jiffy.. They say not but I don’t believe them for one minute.. It is a huge monstrosity of a thing to so it’s even eye pollution.! Never mind it’s affect on the environment.!
                       
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                      • Fat Controller

                        Fat Controller Cuddly Scottish Admin! Staff Member

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                        Not much bias in that article then........ :heehee:

                        The truth is that people think these sort of ideas are fantastic, as long as they aren't situated on their doorstep. Sadly, they have to go beside somebodies doorstep, or they don't get built :noidea:. We all buy things, but then are not happy to have a dump/tip/landfill site near our home; we all want to travel, but don't want a motorway or a runway near our home.

                        Surely it is better that this sort of waste is burned, and thereby turned into energy, with the resulting ash being used to make fertilisers, rather than have it go straight to landfill and lie there for decades? And bear in mind that the filtration that will no doubt be applied to this plant will mean that the exhaust gases are likely not to be the billowing smoke stacks that everyone is anticipating.

                        I am not saying this because it is not on my doorstep - - this one isn't, but this one is. The worst disruptions so far for us is being able to hear some of their site equipment if the wind is blowing in the right direction.

                        About a year or so ago, we had a consultation running from Heathrow regarding flight patterns that they might try (I don't fully understand it, but it was basically runway and flight path rotation which meant that you would have three or four days with planes and then six to eight days without); I was one of the few in my street that liked the idea.

                        Now that the idea has become reality, hearing a plane overhead now is actually really quite rare - much, much less than it was. I was at my brother in laws the other day, who is in a different area, yet so close to the airport he should be able to smell the jet fuel, and yet the whole time we were there, not one single plane. Sometimes, these things work out to the good.
                         
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                        • pete

                          pete Growing a bit of this and a bit of that....

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                          We have a large incinerator, not on my door step, but over the other side of the town, not that far from residential areas, and they are building masses of houses not that far away from it.

                          When it was first suggested there was uproar.

                          Cant say that I've heard much protest in the last 5 yrs or so, people have just got used to it being there.
                          Kent Enviropower Home

                          The alternative is land fill, I know which one I prefer.
                           
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                          • Marley Farley

                            Marley Farley Affable Admin! Staff Member

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                            Yes I know we have to do something about our waste now don’t get me wrong, but I am not a fan of incinerators or landfill either mind you.. It is of course a case of not on my doorstep as well I am sure...:sad::mad:
                             
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